ba baraccus Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 So now all the manufacturers are going to produce 4 strokes does that mean they will discontinue the 2 stroke models? I ask because as a rider I do not personally want to endulge in a 4 stroke machine but at the same time I dont want to have to stick with an old 2 stroke that is at some point going to wear out and maybe need replacing! Im sure the new generation 4 strokes will be great machines but the expense and maintenance of them isnt an option for me and being involved in the MX scene as well I have seen the costs of rebuilds and it is crippling! Now I know MX bikes need a lot more maintenance anyway but I still dont want the risk! A whole load of MX boys and girls are going back to 2 srtokes because of this issue (those 4 strokes are time bombs)! So anyway will the likes of Montesa, Scorpa, Sherco etc keep producing 2 smokes??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianj Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Hi, My opinion:- Trials is a simple sport.....with simple, lightweight bikes. So unless 4T's offer a "significant" advantage of 2T's in the sections over the coming years.......or 2T's are wholly 'banned'.........then they'll be around for a long while yet. Me? I'd rather have the simplicity of a 2T than have a whole load more mechanics and electronics to worry about................at the moment anyway! Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterchrismas Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I would say no at the moment, however if HondaMontesa had their way the answer would be yes. Now that the novelty of four bangers has declined in the enduro market people are returning back to two smokes mainly due to the high maintenance cost (oil and filter change every three hours competition running and valve adjustment every fifteen). Don't forget the issue of noise; many venues are either restricted or being forced to close due to the prevalence of four bangers which people find offensive to the ear. I can only see Honda not building any more two smokes; so long as there is a demand for them other manufacturers will continue to build them. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgshannon Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I dont want to have to stick with an old 2 stroke that is at some point going to wear out and maybe need replacing! 2-Stroke or 4-Stroke, they will both eventually wear out and need replacing. The good news is that I have "an old 2 stroke" (Montesa Cota 247) that is now 30 years old and still going strong! I also have an old 4 stroke (Honda SL100) that is now 34 years old and still going strong! It is far more a matter of how well you take care of your bike than which engine variation you pick. You may have to move to Vintage somewhere along the line, but with care and maintenance, you too should be good for 30 years plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallace Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 (BA Baraccus @ Nov 11 2004, 11:02 AM) I dont want to have to stick with an old 2 stroke that is at some point going to wear out and maybe need replacing! I have a 1984 ty 250 and my mate has a 1980 Hontessa 200. We were out last Sunday putting them (and us) through their paces and had a great time. Thats a total of 44 years old for the bikes and 88 years for us. My ty has never been bored, or rebored , and the Hontessa has compression to break an old age pensioners hip. If the 4 stroke was going to replace the 2 stroke it would have happened back in 83 when Eddie Le Jeune introduced the Honda. Long live the 2 stroke!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 in todays sections the 2 stroke is king. the 2 stroke is quicker of the bottom, revs higher and cleaner and is simply all together a more user frindly machine. there are however rumours that the 4t offers more grip than the 2 stroke option. well this is just a rumour!!! trust me ive seen one last week in competetion and it had no advantage. i think the reason is people hear a four stroke and it does admitadly sound soft on the bottom end however there is no where near as much feal and if you shut the 4 strokes down on the bottom end they will have a good go at throwing you over the bars due to the engine breaking. another reason why 2 strokes are gonna live forever is the cost factor already discussed. but one thing that hasnt been mentioned is that the first time honda had the little japaneise riding one at twin ring motegi (japan) they actually carried a laptop aroud with them to program the egnition to respond correctly in each section. well ok not every rider needs ultimate performance like them boys but still if they have to use egnition programing equipment to make the four strokes as good as the 2 strokes then why not just stick with the 2 strokes. why try and make the 4 strokes something that they arent, when we all have perfectly good 2 strokes in our sheds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I wish I could say that the US has enough buyers to make the continued manufacture of 2-strokes financially viable for the factories. Somehow I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Twostroke or Fourstroke - its all really a matter of personal choice. Manufacturers are trying to move away from twostrokes for road bikes (mopeds excepted) primarily because of emissions - lets face it twostrokes are not very environmentally friendly (ie they pump out oil and SMELL!) In my view 2 strokes make nice chain saws, strimmers, mopeds and GP race bikes. Otherwise 4 stroke is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 hang on a minute how can you sey 2 strokes are made for such use when it is a fact that the yamaha 4 stroke engine is acually used for dyke pumps in the east. infact if you say the 2 strokes are bad on emmissions i could argue that the 4 strokes create a hell of a noise!! have u actually heard a few of them rev??????. and the reason why gas gas have made no effort in the bid for the best four stroke is because they have been aproached and told if they can slightly and i highlight the word slightly reduce emissions then they are aloud to continue in the production of the 2 strokes. hence why the final date for the end of the 2 strokes got put back further and further and finally has been dropped!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 honda had the little japaneise riding one at twin ring motegi (japan) they actually carried a laptop aroud with them to program the egnition to respond correctly in each section gas gas have made no effort in the bid for the best four stroke is because they have been aproached and told if they can slightly and i highlight the word slightly reduce emissions then they are aloud to continue in the production of the 2 strokes Neither of these claims have come to light previously (even privately!) Can we have proof of your source please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 ok the thing about gas gas making no effort about the 4 stroke is just what is going about if you no what i mean. but i can clearly remember the laptop stuff been metioned in trials and motorcross! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonh Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 We were practicing last Sunday for about 3 hours with no complaints from residents nearby. A rider turned up on a New Montesa 4T and within 15 minutes the land owner turned up looking quite anoyed ! Funny thing was the Landowner thought that the blokes New Monty was knackered ! He asked him to leave and not come back till he'd fixed his bike ! After it was explaind that the bike was fine and that was how it should sound the land owner sent him on his way then asked him not to return with the bike as it was too load and would cause complaints. The only time this has ever happened before was when MX and Quad bikes were around making a row !! My mates and I have a good reputaion in the area that we have built up over time. We have proved to many land owners in the area that Trials bikes are not loud enough to cause complaints. So now most people dont group us together with the ' trouble making noise louts ' on MX and Quad biikes who loose access to land in our area ! How long will this last with the advent of the 4 Stroke ? My 200 GG at 20m on 1/2 throttle = 27 dB Blokes Montesa 4ST at 20m 1/2 throttle = 45 dB Threshold for the land is 35 dB at 20m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 A rider turned up on a New Montesa 4T and within 15 minutes the land owner turned up looking quite anoyed ! You either practice with Dougie or your mate is the first in the UK with the elusive 4-T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramer Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 My 200 GG at 20m on 1/2 throttle = 27 dBBlokes Montesa 4ST at 20m 1/2 throttle = 45 dB Threshold for the land is 35 dB at 20m hey jon, do you always carry a sound (db) meter with you when you go pratcising? Who is this mystery man/bloke that hhas a 4Rt before anyone else? what rubbish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 do you always carry a sound (db) meter with you when you go practising? Busted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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