Week 130 - Give The Lads What They Want

[Andy]

My head is spinning! It

[micm]

Maybe this question is a Northern one. Stopping in a section in the South Downs is well nigh impossible, as its full bore up, roots, round a tree, hairy camber, and flat out downhill! (Or vice versa) Stopping isn't possible at all till some time after the ends cards.

[crasher]

i have to say that being given a five instead of one for stopping seems a bit harsh to me(unless you're taking the mick of course), i have been riding trials on and off for over thirty years ( you'd think more like thirty minutes if you watched me!) and while i know my skill limitations and don't expect to come high up in the results i would be a bit miffed if i got a score of around 200 for my days efforts, although i do it for the enjoyment with the rest of my family that sort of marking may just make me wonder, is it worth it? obviously i have to try and improve my skill level, but i haven't managed yet. (oooh shut yer miserable bugger)

[copemech]

I think the last four paragraphs answer your own question really.

None of the rest want to take a 5 for a hesitation, and most sections are not laid out like the Scottish. The rule is way harsh for a novice and very discouraging.

I still think there is a possibility to hold the upper class riders to the stricter rules within the same given set of sections in many cases. Never tried it really.

[mickwren]

Just on a purely factural basis, yes full no stop means you get 5 for a stop. Sorry rappers but the 1 for a stop rules don't exist anymore

[k1200s]

I have no problem with No Stop as long as the sections are laid out to be ridden that way. That is fine if you have the land, not always possible down south.

However, it is a bas..rd to mark.

If a rider drops down a bank, and forks compress, then rebound, is that a stop?

If a rider swings the rear wheel over by using a big handfull of front brake, is that a stop?

The list goes on.

What I do, when observing you soon get to know the places that a stop is likely in a section, is tell the riders 'if you stop I will count to three. Move by then, you will not loose any marks, stay there longer you will.'

The riders then know you are doing you best, and not just trying to take marks off the big boys.

Remember, in any sport, the best offical is one that know one notices.

Edited August 18, 2009 by k1200s

[cubby]

For the first time ever I can see the argument for the whole sport going no stop.

Some say that less riders would turn out if the rules changed to non stop, however with all of the rules confusion over the last few years, how many others have been put off?? People will still ride, and it may even encourage more back to the sport when it has a clear set of rules and sections that are set out to be ridden non stop and therefore less intimidating?

I was discussing this very subject with Juan Knight on Saturday, and we were both of the view that to watch a top rider get through a hard section without stopping (specifically we were talking Scottish hard sections) is very impressive, and arguably just as skillful as if you stop, consider each rock or step, then ride it!

I like to keep things simple and if the sport is better off for running to non stop rules, then thats what I will ride. If I am allowed to stop, then fine, I can do that as well, but this is where you penalise the less able and newer riders who can't stop and balance, everyone can keep going forwards!

I've always had mixed views about the rules argument, and admit I was quite happy when we were allowed to stop without penalty, however I think Im coming round to the non stop way of thinking as it will be better for the sport to have a common set of rules that are achievable by any rider from top to bottom of the sport.

But it is also more of a judgement call for observers and can be controversial. Rugby is high profile, violent, dangerous even, and decisions made by the officials there are sometimes financially costly to their clubs (i.e. a lot more riding on it than 5 marks) yet generally the players do not argue with the ref, or they might discuss decisions, but the refs decision is final! Maybe a rule of strictly no arguing with observers should be introduced. And after a few have been excluded at all levels the message may get through?? Just a suggestion. It dispoints me enourmously when any rider questions an observer, regardless of level. Have some respect and don't do it, end of!

[copemech]

For all those that want so much to do a non stop, or "stop for 5" , maybe they need to just do a few Carl Peters Gate Trials.

You get points for every gate cleaned 1,2,3,5, easy through hardest. Yes you can stop! Yet one dab and you are busted! No points, all for a loss, come round next time , better luck then.

No question to it, either you took a dab or not! All ride the same lines, or take to the exit with their pittance!

Some love it, others hate it! It can be harsh on those trying really hard.

[andat]

Just on a purely factural basis, yes full no stop means you get 5 for a stop. Sorry rappers but the 1 for a stop rules don't exist anymore

Rappers isn't the only one...The rule has been in since the beginning of the year yet it amazes me how many officials including well respected center officials still dont know!!!!!!

[copemech]

I suppose I should add the fact that HERE, on the CLUB level, it would be up to the given Trialsmaster, C of C i think you call them, to decide the format for the event. Not all are equal, sometimes the format is changed just to break things up, have some fun and such!

Sometimes allowing a lower class rider to ride up to a more challenging line for a bonus in certain sections has been done. Can be great fun really.

The stricter, tougher events can always be had. I have found at times it is just best to get the clubmen out to ride without killing themselves. Usually easy enough to throw in a few "red flag" splits for the top lads if needed!

[triple_x]

Hi

I started trials in 1964 (Southern Centre).

Rules were simple, 5 = stop (no forward motion), 3 = Foot down more that once, 1 = dab and 0 =Clean.

This applied to all riders and we all rode the one course.

Entries were 100 plus and you needed to get your entry in quick.

Initially as a 16 year old I used to ride to and from the trials, the furthest was Poole to Sturminster Newton.

I gave up to get married in 1974 but at the time I noticed an abundance of keen Dads minding (riding around the course) a not so keen son who had no serious interest and did not have clue what to do if the bike broke down. This had two effects A) They delayed the entry and caused more damage to the route.

Imagine how surprised i was to read in T &MXN that the top riders now have minders!!!! I never saw Sammy Miller, Alan Lamkin, Bill Wilkinson, Don Smith, Gordon Farley, Lawrence Telling et al with minders, they just got on the bike and rode the sections (after a good look).

Then I read that the entry for a World Champoinship round had less top class entries than the point positions available, the event was only possible as the ranks were made up of Junior classes (which is excellent young riders need to be encouraged).

Surely we need to go back to basics and make to sport simple, sections achievable and more enjoyable.

Before you all fire off replies this is just a view, I have no experience of the current bikes and perhaps it is there that the problem lies, they are just so good, but that is progresss.

I read last week that in the team trial in Cornwall, teams were excluded as they ran out of time, yet it was OK for one rider to take 4 minuites to ride a section(what is going on).

I have just finished a total rebuild on a Model 91 Sherpa and have 198a in progress, and, hope to do some twin Shock events soon. I will be road registering them the so that, I can, if needed ride to the event and home afterwards.

Martin

Edited September 7, 2009 by Triple_X