Andy Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Caught up with Malcolm and Rhoda Rathmell, the Sherco importers on Sunday at Croft where the British Superbike Championship was being held. The Rathmells were enjoying lunch courtesy of one of their Sherco team sponsors, Doodson Insurance, who are also involved in road race sponsorship. Inevitably, after just a few seconds, Malcolm was quick to say that for once he agrees with me, and trials will indeed be Dynamic, if and when the World Championship goes no-stop/maintaining forward motion/dynamic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Its a shame that you weren't in France as alot of sections were similar, insomuch as they invited no-stop. Watching a couple of sections with no stop in mind it would be a sinch to change them to ride this way, in fact if i remember right 6 and 7 were positively ridden no stop by the majority of the entry in all classes bar lining up for a step in each, or if that rider got in trouble. In fact they reminded me partially of the scottish. Wiggy rode section 15 stopping first lap and got into trouble and fived, but with the section at its worst cleaned it near enough no stop which was one of the rides of the day. (Bou and I think fuji rode a cheat stop line here) But was this the success of the day? Not in my mind it wasn't it was the severity and section design that was right, usual top few a chance for the also rans to shine (gubian lap one 13!!!) and all sections which as a newcomer Alexz could ride. What was a total flop was the location of the trial, stuck up a mountain with no one but the trial and supporters there, no hotel rooms (all block booked by the fim!) and predictable bad weather which changed the ideal severity of the sections. Poor pa only in French and so on. As I have mentioned before do not mind which set of rules I ride under but then its not my living, and I pretty much ride no stop anyways. What anyone has yet to clarify is why no stop at wtc level will increase entries. Why should the riders have no voice? In all top professional sports they do surely? I think if we want an elite prestige top series as a world championship event we need to accept that there are things that need to change, possibly the rules, but also much much more if we want the events to have more competitors. Would no stop make one more rider join the elite class? If so name him. Edited September 14, 2009 by Nigel Dabster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Whatever the rules the problem remains the same!! Nobody really has the Budget to do World Trials outside the factories, some importers and a few well sponsored teams. Rule changes won't help because they don't actually address the problem. I think that if a budget could be found we would see more riders out there chancing their arm and hoping to catch the factories eye. In the current climate only those who "burst" onto the scene get a chance becasue they cannot afford to nuture a rider up the ranks. You cannot compare other events such as Formula 1 because they have an infrastructure in place that means teams have most transport paid for or heavily discounted. Trials doesn't have that infrastructure so costs are per team relatively higher. The series needs a title sponsor able to put up a not insignificant amount of money to support a larger series and help bring through the riders. Getting one has never been a strong point of the FIM and the last time they tried to get in a promoter (Octagon for the Indoor series), it didn't work that well. As for not letting the riders have a say in the rules how short-sighted is that!!!! If riders don't like the rules they go elsewhere!!! My own son no longer rides BUMPY, Ripon, Richmond or Wetherby Trials in the Yorkshire centre because they ride No-Stop. He isn't the only one either. That's one way to lose riders not keep them. Edited September 14, 2009 by Telecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Watch the video again,he stopped around 0.19 sec's.We did'nt see him appear until 0.14 sec's,so he was in the section for about 0.5sec's before he stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Staying away from Mikes comments on marking rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Its a shame that you weren't in France as alot of sections were similar, insomuch as they invited no-stop. Watching a couple of sections with no stop in mind it would be a sinch to change them to ride this way, But was this the success of the day? Not in my mind it wasn't it was the severity and section design that was right, usual top few a chance for the also rans to shine (gubian lap one 13!!!) and all sections which as a newcomer Alexz could ride. What was a total flop was the location of the trial, stuck up a mountain with no one but the trial and supporters there, As I have mentioned before do not mind which set of rules I ride under but then its not my living, and I pretty much ride no stop anyways. What anyone has yet to clarify is why no stop at wtc level will increase entries. Would no stop make one more rider join the elite class? If so name him. The location for this trial might of suited no stop Dabster, but you state it's stuck up a mountain with little exposure. Look at the location for the GB round next year. not too many places have both the terrain and the facilities all close to a large population. I think each countries national championship's top few riders qualify for a two or three round world championship held this time of year would cure many of the expense problems, and give the top riders more time to promote the sport on home soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I am afraid it is often a little bit of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I thought that I preferred stop allowed until I decided to try some of my stop allowed practise sections (at my crappy level) on a no stop basis... I'd quite happily go no-stop on stuff, but it's all down to how the sections are laid out and the land available.... Plus I've only ridden 2 events this year and none for the previous 6 years so I can't comment too much on the various rule sets! It would seem logical to assume that with no-stop it will allow some less intense pieces of land to be used at higher levels again? I thought that it might make observing easier, but to be fair I think it will just throw in the 'I didn't stop' problem. Selfishly I'd suggest that the ACU gets rid of the options and goes no-stop all the way. The top guys can ride and no matter what the rules are they will come out on top. I wonder if it might remove the less extreme stuff, but will it negate the multi-route courses at international or national level.. this I doubt. It'll be interesting to see what really happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micm Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Interesting you quote Malcolm Rathmell as I always though his fluid riding style was the epitome of trials of that period. Wasn't it the case that the Uk at least only converted to 'stop' because of European pressure to comply, though I may be mistaken. In some ways I believe it might make observing a bit less of a lottery I do not recall observers finding it too difficult to award a 5 or not under the old system, so watching a rider see sawing on log or rock for ages for just about a 3 will vanish. I think the main problem and the main strength of 'stop' is the ability to line up in front of a steep obstacle before launching the bike. Often the moments before a good rider fires up can create suspense and then the climb itself can be awesome. On the other hand the suspicion that the ability to align is as important as overcoming the obstacle takes something away from the achievement. The reason it takes something away is that any random element in the approach is removed as any number of corrections can be made, with tremendous skill and balance obviously. So the flow and the fluidity is only sometimes on display with 'stop.' I can understand how expert riders can feel p****d off as they have invested much time and effort in improving their skills to match the rules. Their advantage is slightly reduced perhaps. Indoor events are a different matter will these also have to be no stop as well? As for the name I recall 'The Who' album (Sell Out) where they spoofed an American Tv advert - 'The Charles Atlas course with Dynamic Tension will make you a beast of a man!' Is that where the FIM got it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Regardless of personal opinions it is obvious that the Trials world has reached a point where something has to be done,either something major or a few tweaks. Trials scoring remained basically unchanged from its inception until roughly 20 years ago, the only major change was the introduction of a "2". Over the last 20 years or so we have had 3 or 4 different sets of rules, each of which has had some good and some bad points. Now that we have reached this "crisis" point we need to ensure that whatever is done will set Trials on a firm footing for the foreseeable future. Therefore it is essential that we take notice of all points of view, especially people who will be affected by any changes. Adam Raga is just as entitled to be heard as are Malc and Rhoda, and the hundreds who have aired their opinion on this forum.There are a hardcore who have been bleating on about no stop for years and part of me thinks ok lets go no stop just to show it is not the magic solution they claim, but that makes me as big a hipocrite as they are. We need to take action for the benifit of the sport, not just personal bias or opinion. If no stop turns out to be part of the solution then so be it, but the decision must be based on discussion which includes all interested parties, not just those who shout loudest or longest. On the second point, the fact that there are so many championships and trials in our calendar shows that the sport is in a better state in this country than it is in many parts of Europe, credit the ACU for some of this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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