Hey, i'm just saying that the bikes i compared it to, didn't have the same get up & go, they could have been tired or not very well set up,but i'm telling it like it is.

With the RTL, possiby most people view an RTL as "too rare/expensive to ride", TLR's are 2 a penny so are very popular and can be ridden in the t/shock class, but an RTL doesn't really have a class for it.

Maybe that explains it.

Not long before I sold mine there was an influx of TLR 200's in the UK, quite a few shops were selling new bikes (late 80's maybe early 90's)

I had chance to have a go on one, standard trim, all the guy had done was run it in and took the lights off.

Thing that stuck in my head was how flat the engine felt compared to my 250, I was thinking the 200 might be the solution instead of my Snappy 250...how wrong I was.

I sold my last 250 to a Welsh Farmer who was going to use it to round his Sheep up with

Often wondered what happened to it.

Yeah, i reckon there's bloody hundreds of TLR's, Monts, Sherpas & allsorts sitting in old barns & sheds all over the country unused for years. They had to go somewhere when the monoshock era swept them away.

It's like buried treasure!

Fitting extra base gaskets does indeed make the bikes run better, but this is more down to the mod retarding the cam timing very slightly, than the very small amount it reduces the compression.

Adding 0.5mm to the base gasket would reduce the compression ration to between 8.0 :1 and 8.1:1 from a standard 8.5:1. This to me would constitute a significant reduction in compression. You are corrct in saying a thicker gasket does retard the cam timing slightly, but to be honest the cam timing on a TLR is never going to be after removing the crankshaft sprocket because of the lack of a fixed reference point when ref-fitting the sprocket. 'Lining up the centre of a sprocket tooth with the centre of the Woodruff key' is pretty vague for Honda! - Perhaps this helps why some TLRs are 'sharp' and others are 'smooth'.

I would not be happy with Devcon/Araldite or similar in a cylinder head - even the iinlet port, hence my comment about head-work being a pretty serious undertaking.

From HondaRS

These bikes as you thought do like a larger volume exhaust

Theoretically (in the books I have read anyway!) all fourstroke singles give better low-down torque with a large volume exhaust - there is a formula relating swept volume to exhaust volume - I don't know what it is. I was surprised to be able to tell the difference between a WES system & std Honda front box.

From t-shock 250

Lifting the front wheel of a TLR250 onto a trailer at the end of a trial proves it is NOT light

but the snatchy power delivery of the 250 often makes the front end feel light

. Spot on description!

From reading all the posts it seems we all agree on similar things -

some bikes can have snatchy power delivery low down

some bikes prone to stall - some guys use a higher idle speed to help cure this

RTL250 or CG125 clutch plates are better than std TLR (Appleyards advise CG125! - they were cheaper several years ago when i got some).

Std Exhaust best - then DEP & WES

There are differences in opinion on how competetive the bike is and how powerfull it is compared to other twinshocks - it would be a sad world if we were all the same! this sums it up

Really it's mostly down to the rider though

With the RTL, possiby most people view an RTL as "too rare/expensive to ride", TLR's are 2 a penny so are very popular and can be ridden in the t/shock class, but an RTL doesn't really have a class for it

Are TLR250's 2 a penny - judging by the prices they are fetching then I think the answer must be no. Its a case of supply & demand.

As for the RTL being too expensive to ride & not having a class for it - its significantly less expensive than a new bike (particularly 4st Honda (Montesa) and can ride in normal trials.

There is no law saying you have to have a 'modern' bike to compete.

My TLR is ridden in the twinshock class where there is a twinshock class but in normal club trials I ride the same route as everyone else - I am never near to top of the field but may scores on a good day are similar to the lower end on the normal riders - LACK OF SKILL NOT LACK OF BIKE.

Yes, i didn't actually mean they were cheap, just that there are hundreds of the things around, i totally agree they are silly money now, certainly not worth

Edited December 26, 200421 yr by t-shock 250

What about the TL range of bikes, see quite a few TL 125's on ebay, can be had for the

I'd be tempted with a 125, if only for the reason of cost!

The engine looks very much like CG 125 stuff which I would imagine there's loads of bit still around

I think they do look quite nice,Had my eye on one on ebay recently, the seller was local to me and I nearly put a bid on but his reserve was a bit steep. Here's another pic:

certainly not worth

Edited December 26, 200421 yr by g4321

Back to the original topic, Steve Saunders rode a tlr twinshock when he first moved to Honda, his works RTL wasn't ready, you should be finding out off Steve if this could be the bike.

I will watch the 85 ssdt video see if I can see the oil pipe on Mick's bike, he also rode a TLR in the twin shock class ssdt around 93, may of been the same bike.

The kick starter on the photo is TLR, the RTL motor used a different kickstarter, the shaft was different, if it is an RTL motor wouldn't it use the RTL kickstater ?

Edited December 26, 200421 yr by ishy

Values

Perhaps some people do think these are the best bike out there in their class and are willing to pay for the privaledge of owning one - hence the high price they are willing to pay. Not everyone has the same opinion - it would be a sad world if they did.

External oil feed

I saw a TLR with an external oil feed recently (perhaps MGP 2004?) I spoke to the owner enquiring about the mod - he said this was done before he bought bike. Unless this is the same bike in the thread then relying on identifying an external oil feed on a video may not be 100% accurate. Need to find out registration of bike ridden in Scottish.

Compression

As I made clear I was talking about relative changes. If you have an accurate figure to start wioth it is easy to accurately work out how much to skim from a head or how much spacer to add to get to a desired ratio. You need an accurate figure to start with.

The kick starter on the photo is TLR, the RTL motor used a different kickstarter, the shaft was different, if it is an RTL motor wouldn't it use the RTL kickstater ?

Would an RTL kickstart work with a TLR outer case? Perhaps this is the reason for a TLR kickstart being used. If the shafts are different diameters then it puts the RTL motor theory into question.

Hi, Hope you all had a merry christmas...some of us have been working!!!

Thought I'd chip in my tuppence worth. In all the years I have ridden bikes back to riding my old mans 325 bulto into a fence(!!!) the TLR is the best thing I have ever ridden. I have never noticed snatchy power at low revs on mine or a light twitchy front end, power just rolls on nicely and off when you want it too. Gearing seems okay for whatever I want it to do. It may have some mods but I don't know what, got it from my old man but he doesn't know of any either.

The biggest thing I found as a negative, was as someone else has said, a tendency to stall at very low revs, tick over up quarter of a turn solved that.

I've never ridden anything that can grip as well in any conditions, deep muck, slimy rocks everything. It's got enough grunt the way it is to cope with my dynamically challenged frame (fat!)...

As to some of the comments on price, it is immaterial whether the prices are extremely high or stupidly low, if some one is willing to pay that price then why argue. Market forces will always dictate but no-ones getting mine even after the missus saw what they were selling for!

My only wish with the TLR is that the rider, me, was better and could do it more justice...

dy

RS it aint the bike that wins its the rider

Looks like your bike was fitted with an RTL250S engine by Honda, but has std TLR side casings, rather than the sand cast magnesium ones of the RTL. A way to tell is to ride the bike, and see how closely spaced the first 3 gear ratios are..............if they are very close, then its pretty likely it is an RTL motor.

Sounds like its an excellent bike, if it does have an RTL motor, and probably worth serious money if you ever wanted to sell it!

The first 3 gear ratios are close, i have ridden the bike at a few ACU rounds and also the Manx and after a lot of trial and error settled on 9-39 as the best gears for my type of riding. As i said before it is very smooth with instant pick up, i will post some pictures of the engine when i have cleaned it after the boxing day trial!.

External oil feed

I saw a TLR with an external oil feed recently (perhaps MGP 2004?) I spoke to the owner enquiring about the mod - he said this was done before he bought bike. Unless this is the same bike

Sounds like it is the same bike then!