dan thorpe

[rosey]

Back then those pushing for better riders and more spectacular events for spectators had nothing but good intentions, same goes for today, people with a lot of time and effort invested in promoting the sport.

At some point we have to stop making the same mistakes, and take trials for what it is, the poor man's motorsport, trying to mold the sport for profit isn't doing it any good.

Bang on!

We've had a time when Lampkin was at the top for ages and I don't think it did owt for the general sport of trials in the UK. I was dismayed at the lack of general media coverage an English multi world champ got.

The sport needs to be so that it caters for the masses... now I didn't say that means No-stop or stop allowed or whatever, but to be fair the ACU ought to be actively looking at future options to preserve trials maybe pushing a forum like this to have a serious vote... These options need to be to maximise the use of whatever land is available and as we know not every piece of land lends itself to stop or no-stop rules.

[roester]

Bang on!

We've had a time when Lampkin was at the top for ages and I don't think it did owt for the general sport of trials in the UK. I was dismayed at the lack of general media coverage an English multi world champ got.

The sport needs to be so that it caters for the masses... now I didn't say that means No-stop or stop allowed or whatever, but to be fair the ACU ought to be actively looking at future options to preserve trials maybe pushing a forum like this to have a serious vote... These options need to be to maximise the use of whatever land is available and as we know not every piece of land lends itself to stop or no-stop rules.

I agree with much of what Dan Thorpe wrote but am also concerned with another angle.

I think most of us would like to see the sport of trials grow and thrive, or at the very least avoid dwindling. To do this it needs to attract some new blood from outside the staunch, loyal trials families. I believe that no-stop trials is more appealing to the majority of 'outsiders' based on numerous discussions with friends and family over the years. I've never once seen a non-trials fan so impressed by watching a rider bouncing up and down and then rocketing up a step that they wanted to try the sport. They might marvel at it, but they do at circus acrobats but don't consider leaving their 9-5 to join the circus! Try to explain stop-allowed rules to a road-biking mate and they glaze over well before the end! Some even think the sport looks a bit silly with all that pogoing on the spot.

Major sports like football and even smaller ones like motocross, have the majority of rules so that they are intuitive and easy to understand, and much of the beauty of those sports is when the movement flows and is dynamic. Trials will never be mainstream, but the points I'm making are that no-stop traditional rules are much easier to understand, and flowing trials is not only more graceful and pleasing to the eye for most outsiders but comes across as much more accessible to the uninitiated.

[atomant]

Great well written letter making a lot of sense. ....... Head in the sand response though

[copemech]

Then I will post up a hypo for someone like Ishy! Given a choice, which do you prefer?

He has ridden them all, and has much more experience, I have ridden both and have my pref.

He is a better rider, and I am low to mid. We are both old !

I have no prob with stop and hop, allows me to stop if needed, don't do hopping. Non issue at a club level for most untill you get into the toplines.

I can deal with no stop, have and will, but would prefre stop for one, if that were the case. I can take enough points on my own, thank you!

I have never figured out why we reserve THE 4 for those that paddle through the section!

I should add we have no Scotish style flowing sections here!

Edited December 15, 2010 by copemech

[smalley250]

Non stop is poorly observed from my experience. At Keighley gates i have had points for what i considered a near stop then actually seen Dan bounce backwards and dab only to recieve a Point. The top riders get away with alot as i fived the opening section on the jackwood River Kwai as did a young lady only to find she recieved a three. I have heard some observers say a 1 or 2 second stops ok by me so how fairly policed is that.

Most beginners and novices stop in sections foot select gears etc and giving them points for every stop would be demoralising i would assume. Futher up the chain the level often requires some hopping on the move which i can hop fine but have struggled as to keep motion and make the tight turns for a non stop event.

In short im not a fan and think its more to do with an ageing amount of riders not attempting the hard route with the top level riders of late like most sports, are of a higher level than yesteryear.

Edited December 15, 2010 by smalley250

[rosey]

Then I will post up a hypo for someone like Ishy! Given a choice, which do you prefer?

He has ridden them all, and has much more experience, I have ridden both and have my pref.

He is a better rider, and I am low to mid. We are both old !

I have no prob with stop and hop, allows me to stop if needed, don't do hopping. Non issue at a club level for most untill you get into the toplines.

I can deal with no stop, have and will, but would prefre stop for one, if that were the case. I can take enough points on my own, thank you!

I have never figured out why we reserve THE 4 for those that paddle through the section!

I should add we have no Scotish style flowing sections here!

Yes land is a limiting factor...

I've ridden a lot of the variants and I prefer the real stop allowed rules where you could roll/hop backwards, but not dab whilst stopped or going back. That said, I don't think this rule is good for trials and can see the merits of no-stop, which is the version I prefer the least. All methods have difficulties in observing

Sometimes we need to consider the full picture and sadly I dont think the ACU are doing this!

[ishy]

Then I will post up a hypo for someone like Ishy! Given a choice, which do you prefer?

He has ridden them all, and has much more experience, I have ridden both and have my pref.

He is a better rider, and I am low to mid. We are both old !

I have no prob with stop and hop, allows me to stop if needed, don't do hopping. Non issue at a club level for most untill you get into the toplines.

I can deal with no stop, have and will, but would prefre stop for one, if that were the case. I can take enough points on my own, thank you!

I have never figured out why we reserve THE 4 for those that paddle through the section!

I should add we have no Scotish style flowing sections here!

I can milk the stop allowed system a lot easier than the no stop system, if I get in trouble or off line I can sit down with one foot on the ground, look around and figure out what to do next and all for the loss of just one dab.

This is were I think we have lost the plot,trying to take more marks off the better riders by making the sections tougher, when stricter scoring and no second chance to correct the bike used to do the same.

All the trials I ride in the US are stop allowed, and every few years or so I'll go to the SSDT and ride a full no stop trial. I disagree with those who say no stop is too complicated, what's complicated about keep it moving ?.

Is the real argument about one way allows you to get away with more mistakes, the other is more clinical.

[bigfoot]

I'm not sure how many of you guys are aware of this but the Scottish Auto Cycle Union (SACU) adopted the use of the no-stop rules at all trials a good few years back. All club and national events are run to no stop rules and in that time I

[02-apr]

As far as I can tell from riding, observing and spectating a fair few riders still seem to expect to be allowed to stop under no stop rules, I suppose the stop habit is so well ingrained in them. I know how it feels as I never really got to grips with stopping - if I got in to trouble my instinctive reaction was to keep the thing moving rather than stop and compose myself.

From spectating at major "stop" trials I would dearly love to know if anyone ever gets a five. No matter how bad the performance, unless bike and rider actually part company, they seem to get a three at worst. I'm sure I would become unpopular pretty quickly if I was observing at these events.

[telecat]

I think bigfoot has hit the nail on the head. Rules don't matter, severity of the course does. No Stop is not a panacea. Trials do become easier when the rules are adopted but then as riders get used to them the scores come down and the courses have to become harder to get the marks off them. You see it though the year in club championships. The first trials are relatively easy but as the CoC try and stop several riders cleaning or having low marks all the time the rider numbers drop. It seems we have a large section of riders who love claiming they "cleaned" the trial or were "close" to a top rider, and who are put off by higher scores even if they do win!!!

The "magic" formula is a course for club riders that "could" be ridden without hopping. A hard course that demands it but also puts in the "thrills" those riders need, and a 50/50 missing out those hard sections where the "Thrilling" bits could cause them problems. I would also say that Long sections are OK providing you don't need a GPS to navigate them!!! Some this year had riders in contortions.

[pete_scorpa3]

I think bigfoot has hit the nail on the head. Rules don't matter, severity of the course does. No Stop is not a panacea. Trials do become easier when the rules are adopted but then as riders get used to them the scores come down and the courses have to become harder to get the marks off them. You see it though the year in club championships. The first trials are relatively easy but as the CoC try and stop several riders cleaning or having low marks all the time the rider numbers drop. It seems we have a large section of riders who love claiming they "cleaned" the trial or were "close" to a top rider, and who are put off by higher scores even if they do win!!!

The "magic" formula is a course for club riders that "could" be ridden without hopping. A hard course that demands it but also puts in the "thrills" those riders need, and a 50/50 missing out those hard sections where the "Thrilling" bits could cause them problems. I would also say that Long sections are OK providing you don't need a GPS to navigate them!!! Some this year had riders in contortions.

I think long sections are great providing the severity is right.

There are two things to watch out for when setting a long section, firstly it is demoralising for riders to fail right at the end of a long section, try to put the hard bit in the middle.

The other thing to avoid, is having one or two long sections in a multi lap trial as this is where the riders will all end up queuing. Try to make the sections all of similar length in time.