Pre 65 Scottish 2011

[old trials fanatic]

As it says on the Scottish Pre65 Regulations:-

"The Organisers reserve the right to allocate a number of entries at their discretion. Should the event be

over-subscribed all other entries will be selected by ballot."

The events are sponsored by the tourist board so they want an entry to attract spectators. That's why well known riders and unusual machines get in. I understand that there were more entries on Cubs than ever. Visitors don't want to see a procession of these lightweights.

The rest of us have to cross our fingers. 'Twas ever thus!

I'm well down the reserve list so fingers crossed.

Be nice to know the "number" before bothering to send in an entry. Sod all chance of that.

Sponsored by the tourist board ? Think you can look a bit further away in a south easterly direction for another answer which has a bearing on that magical "number" fair enough i suppose.

To be truthfull i've lost interest not because i didnt get an entry. Havent bothered entering the last two years anyway but good luck to all those who were chosen, cant bring myself to say "won" the ballot

[big john]

I've been watching a video sent to me by Jock McComisky taken in 1986 by an old hand called Jackie Williamson of the Pre-65 Scottish Trial (when it was a one day event) and the range of machinery and genuine Pre-65 machinery was quite staggering. Apart from Rob Edwards' Triumph which was clearly a Triumph Adventurer in reality and Alex Buchanan's Triumph which George Greenland later identified as a Wasp built in 1968 - the bikes were pretty much "as they were". Very few James seen in any of the shots and the Tiger Cubs spotted had heavyweight teles and certainly no trick forks as far as I could tell. Everyone used a period carb, probably set up as best they could.

A good cross-section of bikes ridden, as they had been in the 1950's and 1960's with some earlier variants than that as well. The sections were also not so tough. Everyone seemed to be enjoying their day out.

One very interesting piece when the cameraman tried to take a shot of a certain Mr. Miller change the fork oil on his Ariel, he was told in no uncertain terms to "go away". I would imagine that the innards he intended to keep secret!

No-one seemed to be too concerned about who was riding what as they were all period machines, even Walter Dalton looked considerably younger back then, he was driving a brand new (C reg) Ford Sierra 1.8 diesel!

Pity it all went a bit shall I say: "sour", from just 24 years ago isn't it?

Big John

Edited December 30, 2010 by Big John

[old trials fanatic]

Pity it all went a bit shall I say: "sour", from just 24 years ago isn't it?

Big John

Couldnt agree more BJ

[slapshot 3]

Wonder how many of these posts are regurgitated from previous years??? Sorry chaps but a lot of this comes over as sour grapes every year.

Their event their rules, the line from the regs is quoted already so no need to go back over that.

I've attended the event from year 1 and the line up in machinery has changed so much. Over the last 5 years observing you notice how more and more the machinery is becoming less and less Pre 65, there are so many bikes and bits of bikes in the trial that couldn't feasibly be pre 65, yet they are there year on year. My view is that it needs to get back to what it was meant to be. These "modern Pre65 bikes" are a bit of a laughing stock really. Cubs with casings redesigned to take Gas Gas clutches and other internals, Forks which are quite blatantly "cut and shut jobs", original sliders welded over modern internals, it is laughable.

When you look at how original bikes should look they are so much more pleasing to watch, the most obvious I know are John's Matchless and the Cub that Feet up Dave uses, for me, thats where it should be. Pre65 Ariels look NOTHING like what you see in May and other than the Staniforth family's very original James' the rest are out of place, Cubs, BSA'a where do you want to start. Technology is caught in a time warp because a lot of the technology and engineering expertise you see in May every year just wasn't possible in the early 60s!!

However, back to my first comment, the club have the right to run their trial the way they want to and whatever that is I'll continue to support it in any way I can. It is an amazing event, one that as Trials fans we should cherish rather than spend time slagging it off!!

Edited December 31, 2010 by Slapshot 3

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's

Has you say, the Scottish club have the right to choose, just who they want to ride in there trial.

But perhaps the "Pre65" prefix should be dropped from the title,and replaced by a more sensible, BTS's (British Twin Shocks). The two day Scottish/British twin shock trial. would seem a far truer title.

Now I believe that this year, photos from both sides of the machine were required?

I wonder if the committee would like to publish these pictures on here, or on there web site. We then could all decide, if the bikes should be eligible for a title of (pre-65) or BTS. And a very good use of the photos it would be to anyone interested in motorcycle engineering.

Regards Charlie.

[big john]

Now I believe that this year, photos from both sides of the machine were required?

I wonder if the committee would like to publish these pictures on here, or on there web site.

You are quite correct Charlie, photos had to be supplied by entrants this time. However the photos are purely for the event organisers use only and not for public scrutiny, it could lead to copyright and other such issues if they were to be published on an open website. Some owners may object to their photographs being distributed (data protection and all that!)

I believe that there have been a number of rejections after the photographs have been submitted.

Slapshot has a point, you could cut, copy paste a whole heap of stuff on this event from previous years!

Big John

[craig10]

Sorry but a lot of this comes over as sour grapes every year.

Their event their rules, the line from the regs is quoted already so no need to go back over that - the club have the right to run their trial the way they want to and whatever that is I'll continue to support it in any way I can. It is an amazing event, one that as Trials fans we should cherish rather than spend time slagging it off!!

Totally agree

[bilc0]

Happy New Year.

[old trials fanatic]

One thing that does come to mind and i'm NOT slagging the event or organisers so bear me out please.

I feel we need to decide if the Pre65 Scottish Two Day is supposed to be a competition or a pagent?

To me if it's a competition then it's only narural for a competitor to want the most competitive machinery which is what we have at the moment.

However if it is supposed to be a pagent then only the most original of original bikes must do. Then the sections could also return to how they were in the day.

After reading the posts i can see both factions contributing and i feel most of the "problems" come from not knowing if it is a competition or something more akin to the Goodwood Festival of Speed. Perhaps the spectators could dress in period fashion?

I'm not taking the pee just look how succesful and oversubscribed the Goodwood Festival is.

[slapshot 3]

One thing that does come to mind and i'm NOT slagging the event or organisers so bear me out please.

I feel we need to decide if the Pre65 Scottish Two Day is supposed to be a competition or a pagent?

Paul,

first comment was a generalisation.

From above: the point is it's bugger all to do with us, it's the decision of the organising club not the riders to decide the rules and regs, you like them put an entry in you don't, well I quite sure folk can spectate, help out or find something else.

You've made a comment in the thread about the Sportsman Class about the changes YOU have made to YOUR events to make them more rideable, It was YOUR decision probably based on feedback and you manybe have the option to do that. I don't think the Edinburgh Club have that choice, they react to the pressures of the demands of this one event.

[cabby]

Hmm.... seems we're missing a few posts from this topic from earlier

Quite embarrassing

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's

Now if the two day Scottish trial, only had a few entries, sent in , they may think about changing things?

But we all know that this event is always well over subscribed, and while there is an alleged ballot,people will always whinge.

There is no way that this event is going to be anything else than it is now. Then only slight change may be made by pressure from who ever is sponsoring the event at the time.

The club are under no pressure to get more public up to witness the event, although the numbers may help the local economy. But don't forget the Six Days is on on the following week, and this event brings the majority of spectators up to the area.

So the only help to the club we do talking about it, is to perhaps add a few more faces that may now go up to Scotland, to take a look at the event themselves. See you there!

Regards Charlie.

[slapshot 3]

Hmm.... seems we're missing a few posts from this topic from earlier

Quite embarrassing

No the thread is as it's been posted dbf, nothing in the deleted box mate.

The popularity is THE reason they only have to tweak things as you say, if only 30 folk entered there would be a problem but I don't see the few naysayers creating a boycott some year, do you.

[big john]

This event has regularly been 100% over-subscribed for many years. The limit is 180 riders, it cannot be easily extended to accommodate more competitors, because it uses the public highway and there are tight restrictions in Scotland for this facility.

I believe, although it has not been substantiated, that it has again been oversubscribed by about 70%. I have spoken to quite a number of people who have decided not to enter this year, this has unfortunately failed to "solve" the over-subscription issue.

A number of suggestions have been made on here (and elsewhere) and even approaches made at various times to the organising club and it's officials. However most of these "suggestions" ensure that the proposer (and all his/her chums) are assured of an entry if such schemes were to be implemented. The worst idea I ever heard was restricting entrants to being over 40 years of age, this in itself would be in fact an "ageist" act, not recommended and also ensure that continued interest in the event would eventually cease!

A lot of bikes that enter are not really in the original spirit of the event, which was in reality a "diversion" for a mid-week bottle neck of traffic at the SSDT. The first event saw a load of ex-factory riders obtain a suitable machine of the period (e.g. Arthur Lampkin on an ex-works BSA Gold Star; Jeff Smith on another; Gordon McLaughlan on an AJS etc... etc) Now I'm afraid we see very interesting machines dating from 2009 or later, which while technically brilliant and expensive pieces of kit, but falling far short of being "Pre65".

And if they don't get a ride...well need I really say more?

And before some bright spark says anything...NO, I am not the spokesman of the E&D club thank you very much! See below!

The photographic submission with initial entry is a good thing, I have lost count the number of times guys have sent me a photo of their bike asking if I thought it would comply, my answer has always been, you are speaking to the wrong person! Now they have direct access to the Clerk of Course and Eligibility panel for a correct appraisal.

As Slapshot3 has already said: It's their trial, their way!

Big John

(IMHO...)

edited for spelling mistakes.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Big John

[metisse]

Well nothing has been said this time around that wasn t discussed last year and the year before that.

People I speak to and who support Pre 65 trials all year round, up and down the country tell me that all they wish for is a fair crack at getting a ride. Mais ce la vie...Everybody knows how it works....

Big John on the bench for the time being ...There was me thinking you were a shoe in.... The annual sacrifice to the ballot gods not working this year... Still there is hope, long time till May... Good luck to you, and everybody else lucky enough to be in, or on the reserve list..

Bon Soir