5again Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 First and foremost it WAS a really good enjoyable day, clearly big effort by the clubs and the observers, Well done. Didn't notice any issue about what flags to ride, tbh can only remember it being two routes anyway. Maybe this was more of a prob for early runners. Did have a problem with route markings missing after the ford, but otherwise thought it was great. Surely the results will just be amended to reflect the correct application of the regs for the event, i.e. missing sections will be scored as either a '5' or '10', or protest per nsc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 First and foremost it WAS a really good enjoyable day, clearly big effort by the clubs and the observers, Well done. Didn't notice any issue about what flags to ride, tbh can only remember it being two routes anyway. Maybe this was more of a prob for early runners. Did have a problem with route markings missing after the ford, but otherwise thought it was great. Surely the results will just be amended to reflect the correct application of the regs for the event, i.e. missing sections will be scored as either a '5' or '10', or protest per nsc. There were half a dozen sections where Normandale riders in Classes B, C and D should have ridden the hard route. There was a note/instruction on the start cards of each of those sections. Bemrose riders were not affected by this. As I understand it, this was a last minute decision, so not in the regs. If riders didn't see the note they didn't know and therefore rode the easy route and got an easy clean. Riders that correctly rode the hard route were much more likely to lose marks. I saw B and C class riders ride the wrong route on some of those sections (I'm not accusing anyone of cheating as I have no idea whether they knew what they had done was wrong) I understand why the change was made and it gave us a bit more to have a go at so there is no criticism for that. Regular Normandale riders understand the class structure so there should have been no confusion over which route to ride. However, what couldn't have been anticipated was that it may be easy to miss seeing the instruction, particularly in windy conditions when the paper was bent over. Also, riders do not necessarily have to look directly at start cards on every section as a section start gate can sometimes be seen without having to do that. Riders wouldn't have been looking there specifically for the instruction of which route to ride as it wasn't in the regs. Unfortunately, the observers had no idea of which class (or trial) a competitor was entered in, so would not know if a rider was on the wrong route. So there will be some wrong scores recorded in the results. What I can't understand though, is the exclusion of riders for missed sections. A missed section is a 10 mark penalty not exclusion. There are a lot of riders shown as having missed a section (not all the same one) who are still shown as excluded on the final (pending any protests) results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Thought was a cracking ride round and organisation (apart from above issues ) was very good. However if there is any doudt that some riders did not ride the alternative route then these sections should be scrubbed from results. I can't actually recall any information or notices at the start stating a 3rd route was added to that stated in program but I could of missed it. This may of added to confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Thought was a cracking ride round and organisation (apart from above issues ) was very good. However if there is any doudt that some riders did not ride the alternative route then these sections should be scrubbed from results. I can't actually recall any information or notices at the start stating a 3rd route was added to that stated in program but I could of missed it. This may of added to confusion. No 3rd route. Classes B, C and D just rode the hard route on 5 sections instead of the easy route. The sections were the second section in Wrights, first two in Etching and the last two in Booths. The notices were on the start cards of each of these sections, not start area of the trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Route 1 all hard Route 2 all easy Route 3 35 easy, 5 hard. Final instructions/Program only stated 2 options therfore really should have been supplimentary instruction at the start that there was to be a 3rd combination rather than by chance seeing the starts cards as you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) ???"The sections were the second section in Wrights, first two in Etching and the last two in Booths." Hard section where 2nd and 4th in Wrights 1st in Etching (and 2nd) 2nd and 3rd in Booths Edited March 25, 2011 by jimmyl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Statement from NDYMCC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Would be a shame for all the hard work by the club to be wasted if the round was dropped from Championship but can't see how the the club can be 100% confident the correct route was ridden by all on the 6 alternate route sections. Scrubbing these 6 section for B,C,& D classes would seem sensible compromise. Lets hope it gets resolved fr everybodies benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Would be a shame for all the hard work by the club to be wasted if the round was dropped from Championship but can't see how the the club can be 100% confident the correct route was ridden by all on the 6 alternate route sections. Scrubbing these 6 section for B,C,& D classes would seem sensible compromise. Lets hope it gets resolved fr everybodies benefit. I agree, it really was a good days riding, however dropping those scores would not sort out the oddities in the scoring elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Sorry to say, but have to agree with Mike. Scores bear little resemblance to what went on, and YES it will/has affected title challengers. Real shame as the trial was really enjoyable. I read the scores on TC the other night and was shocked to see so many exclusions for missing sections and from riders who I personally know would not have "got lost". Having read this thread I can't beleive what appears to have happened given the vastly experienced organiers and helpers. Just an observation, but this is usually a two route (expert & clubman ) national but this year it was badged as a Normandale Traditional trial. Now I have riden one or two of these Traditional trials in recent years and I have to say that the final instructions have always left me wondering which route I am supposed to be riding....In my honest opinion, the ACU need to issue better guidelines to organising clubs as to which routes each class is supposed to ride. IMHO at this level 50/50 just adds a level of confusion we could do without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eiger Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Anybody seen the results yet, what a disaster, they couldn't have got it more wrong. Observers didn't know what classes should be riding what section leading to riders riding the wrong flags as there was no identification on the bikes to show where they should be going; and 32 riders excluded for "missing" sections where in most cases they will have ridden them but the observers have not written down any score. Exclusion is the wrong penalty according to Normandale regs, ten marks is the correct penalty for "missing" a section. Biggest mess up at a trial I have ridden in for years. Experienced clubs should know better and I expect loads and loads of complaints. The Bemrose has always been a fantastic trial, I couldn't make it this year through work but my parents observed and enjoyed it too and several friends competed and all thoroughly enjoyed the day out. The stalwarts behind this event who have been organising superb trials for many years do not deserve the kind of comments above, mistakes are made by all of us but sometimes we don't have control over the actions of others, trials are usually always run by a small number of volunteers who are prepared to give many hours of their own time for the benefit of others. Constructive criticism is fair but not when fuelled by anger and the author of the above comment (who has and does commit so much of his own time for the enjoyment of others) should really know better as without the likes of him and the organisers of the Bemrose we might as well give up. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasblue Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well said Pete All the organizers are trying to do by giving there time and effort is give us all an enjoyable days sport It was a great day. Look forward to next year. GG blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 This was my first 'proper' Road Trial in about 15 years and was a very enjoyable day. I entered and rode as Class D which was over 40's (first Trial as an old git). I did ride the hard route on the elected sections and dropped 6 of my 7 marks lost on just two of those sections. I think these sections were necessary to sort out the winners as the other 35 sections were all very cleanable with a little concentration. Like Woody mentioned I also witnessed several riders riding the wrong route, some of the discussions overheard at the first of these sections was a little worrying as they didn't even know which class they had entered! I was one of the riders excluded from the first set of results with a section missing but this was later amended. I haven't seen any list of awards or places with the results though, is this as they are still trying to decide what to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Issued by the ACU: ACU NORMANDALE PRODUCTS TRADITIONAL TRIALS CHAMPIONSHIP Due to a Protest, which was upheld, there will be no points awarded to classes B, C & D, following the Bemrose Trial, held on 20th March, and this round not count towards the Championship. For riders in these classes, the event will be considered as not being held and riders will be able to drop another score in the final classification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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