the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 I see many posts on how do I hop, flick turn, nose turn etc, and many club riders loosing points by hopping and trying to trick ride in a section when just riding through is all that's needed, it's an old saying! but first you have to learn to walk before you can run. I know some like the flick turns etc but even Jordi Tarres, and Doug Lampkin didn't/don't trick ride if it's not needed. Is this what made them the best trials riders of all time, being masters of the conventional style of riding, but able to trick ride when needed? some of today's young Spanish riders are brilliant trick riders but seem to be missing that bit of something to give them consistency. It never fails to amaze me when people ask for test ride on a bike, and instead of trying a section or something they have ridden on their own bike to get a comparison, they just try and hop the front and rear end on a bit of flat ground and say thanks, or the young kid doing all sorts of tricks on a rock or log before a trial and people say wow he's good, only to see them legging it on every slippery corner or hill in the trial. Old riders that still win events who's only experience at hopping is over to the bar to get the next round in. Truth is!! 99% of the time at club level trick riding is not needed! how many times has that silly hop cost you a silly dab? I'm not having a dig at anyone, just pointing out what this old git sees happening too many times at local trials. One thing I do know is the best trials riders of all time, have also been the best at the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanvibe Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Spot on ishy, watched a lad at our last club trial a*** about trying to do all the fancy stuff just to fall off !! As you say, do it the old fashioned way and if the odd need arises, hop it or what ever. Indoor has a lot to do with this I think, they see loads of trick riding and think that is what you do. Stick to, pop the clutch and hang on for dear life, if your lucky you make it to the end!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beta-boy Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 i completely agree, why hop when you don't need to but still i've saved a couple dabs by a little hop of the front or rear wheel its a good thing to be able to do, but learn when and when not to use it plus it takes alot more energy out of you to hop your way through everything, so a smart rider only does it when needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Graham Tales, I don't know how he is doing now, Stuart C, could probably set us straight, but the last time he was in the states he gave me the Yorkshire centre handbook which had a picture of Graham, and the fact he was the centre champion in 2000, that's no mean feat as he was riding when I first started around the end of the second world war er summet I know it's cool for the young un's to do the tricks but they are no good if you can't get the bike thru the section. Or could it be the sections are more suited to that style of riding in Yorkshire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedad Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 You cant put an old head on young shoulders Ishy hows that seeley doing mate and will it make it round Scotland this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Hi Pete, to tell you the truth it's stuck in our lads shed, I will ride a new bike if I get in, this will be the last year I put in an entry for the Scottish, but plan to get the Seeley, totaly restored and leave it over there so I can ride events like the Richmond three day clubmans course or some twinshock events in that part of the world. If I don't get in I will still be up for a few days spectating, so make sure I get to see you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridgrunr Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 I've been doing this since 1975 and have seen a lot of techniques tried over the years. The hopping is something I never mastered, and believe me I tried. Often have I been stuck against the ribbon and would have killed to just be able to do one hop! One lousy hop would have freed me from my predicament. So instead I plant a foot and take an intentional pivot dab. I have decided that maybe I'm too old and lazy to try to learn to hop anymore. Plus you have to be REALLY good at the hopping stuff before it does you any good in an actual section. Like Ishy says, more often than not, the hopper will end up taking a dab (or two) anyway. One other thing I know is that it seems to take a lot of energy to do all that hopping and a rider is tuckered out long before he gets to the end of the section. We used to have a rider named Roger Larson in our club. Rode Expert, and was a great hopper. Hopped the bike all over the place and almost always got a 3 by time he was done. Then along would come Kelly Oldroyd, who almost never hopped. He just rode through the section and would clean it. So I'm thinking that being really good at hopping will never get the low scores that being really good at riding will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonder boy Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) I DON'T agree. If you are a person with skills and can flick a bike about in a section well us your skill. For me i'm not there yet so I ride thought the section's as best as i can. Look at the secores from our Annat trial on sunday the 28th A. Route Results. 9th Tony Mower 72 1st Gary MacDonald 6 10th Dan Cameron 75 2nd Alister Morrice 20 11th Alistair Macgillivray 75 3rd Steven Ferguson 43 12th Steven Taylor 88 4th Andrew MacDonald 47 13th Donald MacPhee 91 5th Duncan MacDonald 49 14th Alan Ferguson 92 6th Alan MacDonald 54 7th Kevin Dignan 56 8th Michael Fothergill 57 Trick riding gives you the edge on every other rider in a trial as long as you can us them well. Gavin. Edited December 31, 2003 by Wonder Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted December 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Gavin, I agree if you have it use it, but most don't and trying gets them into trouble. Can't for the hell of me understand what looking at the trial results prove other than those lads finnished in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 The FACTS are that if you want to be a National or even Regional Champion, you must be a complete rider, and yes, be able to hop! But, as Ishy points out, 90% of the people out there learning the sport would be better off Mastering the basics! When I teach trials schools, I constantly hammer that home. Unfortunately, everyone wants to know how to do the trick stuff because it's cool and looks impressive. If you don't have a solid foundation first, it doesn't matter how good you are at tricks! Guys like Ryon Bell and Geoff Aarron are masters at making things like getting traction when no one else can, look routine! If you can't ride up to the point where you need to be able to do that trick move, what's the point? :santa1: Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonder boy Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 The result prove that Gary MacDonald has the skill of trick riding. If you get into trouble in a section he could do a couple of hopes balance and get out of the section. Or if you have to flick the bike around about 270 o Gary could do it, but in my case i have to lose a point because i have to put my foot down to get round the cornor. Trick riding can lose and gain you points. There is a time and place for trick riding. After all you are the person riding the bike what ever makes you fell happy on the bike go for it. Gavin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Good thread Ishy. Now if I can find some buggers to practice with who DON"T like tight sections.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtt Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 I rarely use "trick riding" in a section, as it is rarely required at my level and it usually just gets me into more trouble, as Ishy said. However, I do find myself practicing it fairly often, as practice can be had anywhere, even in the garage! ...whereas, practicing traction control and other "basics" require terrain. Guess it still comes back to why your riding....for competitions, or simple fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 the only time you need to flik the bike about is at the likes of the british championships were the sections are tight and cant be turned for a good line.fliking the bike around will get you into more trouble than good in a club trial but can be used in a tight situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherco pete Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 everybody has their own style of riddin wether it is filking it around corners or jus simply turning.i personaly think flik turns can be a help but can cause you a 5 because of the no stop rule depending on the observer.so if you can flick it about use it if needed but if not dont what ever ridding style works 4 the ridder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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