woody Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 (edited) The Seeley and RS200 share the same engine - the Seeley unit is plated RS200TE. There are/were 220cc and 230cc conversions available in Japan for these engines, don't know who by but may well be Kondo. They use the existing cylinder so the engine looks the same externally. The 220cc is an overbore but the 230cc involves crank re-stroke I think, I'm not 100% certain of this. One thing is for sure though, there is very limited room in the cylinder to bore it out much, even with a new, larger liner, before you meet the stud holes. I've looked at my own engine and as RS says, it must take some extensive work to get them bigger than 230cc as the cylinder stud holes would have to be relocated by the look of it As far as an RS200 goes, from what I've seen of them I'm not sure how competitive they would be. The steering looks very lazy and I've no idea what the chassis is like. Then there is getting one and the cost of it. They are as rare as rocking horse teeth here because they were never imported. Value seems to be above TLR200 from the few I've seen for sale. The ones I've seen also look like a trail bike (picture attached hopefully) although there seem to be several aftermarket tank units available. What about a TLR 200. It would cost less to buy for a good one, the same conversion can be done to the engine, whilst it probably has a better chassis than the RS200 - unless you want something different of course. You could always speak to Ian at Ellastone Offroad (number in TMX) as they occassionally bring in some of these converted 220 and 230cc engines (local bloke has bought one to put in his TLR200 although hasn't fitted it yet) I think they are around Edited June 15, 2005 by Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Here's the exhaust we manufactured for my bike...certainly runs better with a nicer note and almost as quiet.... Nice job, just out of interest what is in it? Empty, a baffle, or core with packing? Any idea what is in the middle box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Thanks Woody it sounds as though the latter TLR model would be the one to choose, until recently when I began to gather the parts together for my Cub project I had not really thought about owning a Honda trials bike but the more I learn the more interesting they appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 I have never owned a four stroke trials bike but I have owned two Honda four stroke singles, the first when I was in my teens being a splendid little 50cc sports bike (do not remember the model number) but it was bright red with a very smart chrome high level exhaust but did it rev and go. One night a friend and I decided to ride to the local pub on the 50 and that he should ride it there with me as pillion, between my home and the pub is an extremely steep hill and because he was not used to the bike got his gearchanges wrong letting the revs fall and the Honda was going ever more slowly until it was on its last gasp, what happened next took a split second but is as clear to me as if it were this morning, just as the bike was about to stop I placed both feet on the road and stood up instantly the revs soared I was left standing in the middle of the road looking like the crazy frog with both hands clutching a dual seat by its centre strap and my friend riding out a giant wheelie and about to sit down on a tangle of all sorts where the seat used to be. Oh what happened to all the fun ? My other Honda was an XR100 enduro a Canadian import what a GEM you could paddle start it and race away it felt like a World Superbike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subira Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 the first when I was in my teens being a splendid little 50cc sports bike (do not remember the model number) but it was bright red with a very smart chrome high level exhaust but did it rev and go. SS50 ! was it 4 speed or 5 ? Had an orange tanked 5 speeder, ace bars Only to be beaten in a straight line by early Suzuki AP50s. This is pre-restriction so these little 50s were good for 55+mph on a provisional license no CBT/Part1/Part2. Had a full Honda stable, as the trials bike was a Fraser Honda 180 ! I look back fondly on the SS50 (can you tell ?) The 180 bore on the std TL125 barrel was too much, every thing became marginal - then finally the liner skirt detached and that was that. Not long after this a Jap lad turned up at a local Centre trials (Hattorri-san), road a development bike that became the Seeley 200. There and you thought I had gone off topic didn't you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Yes that was it Honda SS50 4 speed pile on the revs went like the clappers, have not seen one in yonks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 The RS in the pic posted by Woody is an S model, which is based on the XL125 trail bike chassis, but still has the same motor as RS200T. That would explain why I've never thought of them as a proper trials bike. Didn't realise they did two models. I'd love to see inside one of those 250 converted motors to see exactly how they accomodate the bigger bore, and to see what they do to the head/valves - then if I can just get someone to cast me a cylinder..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 The bigger cylinder fits on 200 cases, which have been bored out to accept the bigger liner. It seems this is exactly what was done to create the TLR250. But there is so little room to fit a bigger liner before you hit the studs. The Seeley/RS200/TLR200 bore is 66mm which, with the 57.8mm stroke gives 198cc, so there is never going to be enough room to get 250cc on bore alone as it would need a 74mm bore which means an OD on the liner of at least 78mm assuming 2mm thick liner. That takes you straight into the studs I think so they would need to be relocated along with the oil feed. Maybe they stroke the crank too. Can't remember what the bore and stroke is on the TLR250 - 70mm bore I think which would make the stroke 65mm. I don't know what you can stroke the crank to on the 200 engine - TL250 also has a 57.8 stroke and they were lengthened to 71mm in the works 305 long stroke bikes, retaining the 74mm bore, but I thnk on the 200 engine the gearbox gets in the way of stroking too far. Maybe they will go to around 65mm though but there aren't any 70mm pistons as far as I know as it is a bit of an oddball size. Interesting stuff - shame I haven't a clue what the answers are, or the engineering skills to 'have a play'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlrs Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 tlr 200 = 65,5 x 57,8 Honda provided a kit: 222 = 66 x 64,9 (right piston) tlr250 = 70 x 64,9 the tlr200 crank mouth can be opened to fit the 250 cyl you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlrs Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 pict2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Here's the exhaust we manufactured for my bike...certainly runs better with a nicer note and almost as quiet.... Nice job, just out of interest what is in it? Empty, a baffle, or core with packing? Any idea what is in the middle box? Griffiths - any news on what's in that exhaust Interested to know as my Seely has a non-standard box on it. Neatly done but steel and I'd like to get one done in Alloy eventually. I can cut it open to see how it is done, that's no problem but just interested to know what you've done inside yours. I'm also interested in hearing what mine sounds like if I can ever get around to getting it running.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 TLRS - Thanks for that info. Sounds suspisciously like you may have done something like this at some time. Have you converted a 200 to a bigger bore/stroke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlrs Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 the 210 kit is a project i'm working on, it is not complicated altering the stroke is complicated and a good tlr250 cyl & piston are difficult to find philippe delwiche used to do the the 250 conversion also a monoshock conversion, with tank/seat rtl-style another option was a longer 6th gear (30T) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 TLR250 barrel and piston just about impossible to find I'd guess. I'm interested in what can be done as I have a TLR200 which I got cheap but needs some work. I was thinking about using either it or the Majesty in the Classic series next year to replace the ailing Ossa. I think a well set up TLR will just edge a Majesty but I could do with a bit more power/torque than the 200 has. All pipe dreams at the moment as the Majesty has to be finished first, but after that, maybe. I'd love to get one to 270, or 300..... Anyway, good luck with the 210 conversion. For a TLR200 or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffiths of wales Posted June 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Woody.....used 2 sizes of duralumin tubing, 75mm and 30mm. Managed to squeeze the large tube to make the rear silencer part, slightly tricky to achieve larger volume and still miss tyre and shock when under load. Made a model of the complete exhaust using card and insulating tape...made all the individual sections and tacked them all together...presented to partially welded system to the bike, bent it here and there and finally got it completely welded. I used no packing or baffle in the system...not much louder than the old system....sounds great, good luck. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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