Was Nostop A Success Or A Failure ?

[baldilocks]

Yes that was tried Nigel.

Such a system was place I seem to recall. Fantastic in that at world rounds you could have 3 or 4 observers for each section. So between 45 and 60 observers for around 10 riders. Marvellous. In addition each rider needed a travelling mechanic, a minder and someone to pass them a drink. So 6/7 people for one attempt at one section. Brilliant.

Edited October 23, 2013 by baldilocks

[breagh]

The whole scoring system in trials is mad.

Try explaining it to someone outside the sport and see how you get on.

Personally I would ditch 2s and 3s.

Clean dab or 5 nothing else,

Leave it stop allowed,but riders must proceed when the observer directs them.

Easy.

Edited October 23, 2013 by breagh

[axulsuv]

So if you stopped and balanced , no penalty. What mark for stopped, balanced and then put foot down ? One or five ? Still room for "interpretation"

As it states for a 5 ... Stopped or rolling backwards without support ... Therefore stopped and dab = 5

[baldilocks]

Not that simple as was proved countless times. Rider loses balance lets go of clutch and dabs at the same time. Rider says I was moving observer awards 5. All trials observing systems are effective on paper !

[baldilocks]

Thought i might post something slightly more constructive as not for the first time i'm getting rather tired of this discussion in that we never seem to recommend a solution other than to go back to some previous system as we have forgot why that didnt work last time.

The objective is to get more entries in the WTC and hopefully more entries in trials in general. Personally i think we could live without the World Championship as its not generating enough sales which i think the sport needs.

First of all the previous post by Gizza 5 is absolutely right in that it is too soon to judge and WTC rules dont impact on what we do on a sunday, we dont need to follow the WTC into extinction.

Dabster is on the right lines if exaggarating somewhat, Erzberg according to their own website had 1500 entries for the prologue, reduced to 500 for the main event. Its an international event open to all levels of rider so i think its reasonable to compare the SSDT or French 4 day. SSDT actually has 275 places but fewer started this year. Not sure how many the french four day gets but i'd guess max of 200. So on the basis of these events, accepting this is hardly scientific, the enduro market is between 5 and 7 times bigger for international event anybody can ride than trials.

I have come round to thinking that the answer isnt a rule change however. Its more about having an enjoyable day out on a bike, all the popular no stop events also happen to be more like the original trials concept, a long lap with some significant distance between the sections. Think about it, if your having a rubbish day in the sections you still can enjoy yourself inbetween the sections, something you cant do in a four lap trial round a field.

The Valtellina 3 day in Italy embraces the range of ability in a different way to the UK to make the event viable. This year only 35 competitors rode the trial, but it didint matter as another 100 turned up and just rode round the course. They seemed to have a great time stopping off for lunch and having a coffee whenever they felt like it. The bonus for me was that there were no queues. The bonus for the dealers and manufacturers was all of these people seemed to have very recent machines, plenty of new betas, Gassers etc and they also had all the kit.

Most of the riders entering Erzberg must know they wont get past the prologue but it doesnt matter as presumably they still enjoy it. Valtellina achieved the same with their mountain course with no sections. How do we accomodate this kind of rider into UK events ?

Edited October 23, 2013 by baldilocks

[dadof2]

Has anyone actually determined if there is a linkage between numbers of riders competing and stop / no stop or is it some factor other than these rules?

For example the main reason I and several of my friends quit motocross was having to provide a marshal at every meeting. Clubs started having two marshals at each post and having them do 1/2 a day. Prior to this you only needed about 16 or 20 marshals which meant with in excess of 100 riders you only had to provide a marshal every 5 or 6 meetings.

Back to trials, cost and lack of practice areas are major factors putting people off. Its not just the cost of spares, its the feeling many have that many spares prices are a rip off.

Disposable income among the young is very low. When I started trials and was an apprentice a new bike was 10 to 15 weeks wages, my bike and van cost about a weeks wages each to insure. Many young are now out of work and even for those in work their disposable income is very low. For many teenagers just running and insuring a car takes all their disposable income.

Was no stop a success or a failure? First you have to define success and failure or how will you know which has been achieved?

[baldilocks]

Dont start dabster off again on succesd criteria

[nigel dabster]

Dont start dabster off again on succesd criteria

Just when we thought you were being constructive!

[nigel dabster]

The rules have made no difference to participation whatsoever, certainly not at wtc level, in fact its gone the other way.

You could wait a year or two but things will only get worse at wtc level whatever the rules.

Its not the rules that's stopping participation, but the change hasn't helped one jot, ditto BTC.

[1shy]

All the things about trials that appealed to me as a kid 50 yrs ago and probably many other kids, no longer appeal to the kid's of today.

Talking bout my generation, the sport just clicked, we had more available land, less hassle putting on events, and more people willing to put on event's, it was a lot of fun but it's gone.

Less young riders coming in and more old riders getting passed it isn't a result of the rules, the world has changed.

[pschrauber]

All the things about trials that appealed to me as a kid 50 yrs ago and probably many other kids, no longer appeal to the kid's of today.

Talking bout my generation, the sport just clicked, we had more available land, less hassle putting on events, and more people willing to put on event's, it was a lot of fun but it's gone.

Less young riders coming in and more old riders getting passed it isn't a result of the rules, the world has changed.

This is a remarkable conclusion, trials at national and international level has got very professional. Less failures are made, you participate when you are good enough. It were the less good riders and there attempts to clear the obstacle, there was mud and splatting water, draining bikes rides using the centipede way to clear sections, this time is over and the fun watching the event too.