woody Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) From what I can see it looks like a standard 325 frame from a model 159/182/191. The numbers don't look right, the two number 1 digits look like they were done with different stamps, the 7 doesn't look genuine Bultaco and the zeros look suspect too. The only bike that had a number that began with a 10 was the original 4 speed Sherpa model 10, so to me it looks like the frame has been re-stamped. Compare them to the numbers on your other frames and the way they are stamped. Edit:- as I've just seen Bult's post. Where did you get the info about the prototypes being stamped 100? The only prototype I've heard of was the early 325 that was numbered 133. Never heard of anything else being numbered 10 apart from the model 10 Edited January 28, 2014 by woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hencam Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi all, thank you for the help and opinions, if it is a standard 325 frame why would the main frame be 2" shorter at the swinging arm pivot, as picture 2 shows with a standard 198A frame led on top, although it is not very clear. i thought it was only the 250 frames between 76 and 78 that were shorter like the 175 version. also this frame is 1.7kgs lighter than any other bulto frame i have including the 198A in the photo, 1.7 kgs or 3.75lb is alot of weight to save on a frame as light as a Bultaco is already. well whatever it is, i think i will put the 198b motor into it, build it up and ride the thing! i also need to learn how to use the forum correctly as all of these posts i now realise should have been in the Bultaco specific forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hencam Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 when compared to other frames bikes i have the numbers, as you say are nothing like Bultaco, so i guess some muppet has just re-stamped the frame, why bother?? it has no log book etc is it possible to move this topic/thread to the correct place?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bult360 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi woody , I have a TSS that once belong to tommy Robb the Irish road racer, and this is stamped up 100 123 6 , the 100 is for proto ,the 123 is the 123 rd proto / development bike and the 6 is for 6 speed .This tallies up with a chart in either the green or red bultaco books poss both which lists some of the 100 series bikes . Mostly early production racers / TSS/ kart etc although I have seen pursangs stamped like this but never a Sherpa . No doubt there were some built ,but who knows .As you say the 133 series was definitely built for the likes of Vesty , the Lampkins and Malcolm rathmell . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 The problem with making the comparison with those two frames is that the 198a/199a frames were quite different from the earlier frames. Your '100' frame, from what I can see in the pictures, doesn't have the bend in the front tube that a '76 - '78 250 has, neither does it have the 250 swingarm pivot position, which was lower than the 350, hence my guess at a 350 frame from '76 - '78. You can't really compare dimensions with the 'A' frame. The model 199 had a new frame which differed from the '76 - '78 frames, the engine was moved back, swingarm pivot moved. The 'A' models then had another new frame with the engine moved higher. So laying an older frame over later doesn't really give you the overall dimension of the bike once the forks, swingarm and wheels are fitted. Put forks and swingarm in and you'll probably find the wheelbase is around the 52.5" mark. Difference in weight is a mystery, although I've no idea of the weight differences in frames from '73 onwards, as that is when they changed to using lighter tubing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 if your looking for a alloy tank for the 199B i bought 1 from inmotion (bultaco uk) £295 comes with tap. looks good on same shape as a plastic tank but in alloy as woody said. i havant had my painted yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 thanks Bondy I was wondering what they look like on a bike. Is the fuel tap well located (with reasonable clearance between the hose and head)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Looks a nice tank but it isn't the same shape as the 198/199b alloy tank, which is what the original poster was asking about. They were unique to the UK bikes and a squarer, flatter shape 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Woody is correct in what he says but them tanks are as rare as hens teeth. and would probbaly cost more. to be honest i only got the alloy tank for show alot off money if you fall off and dent it i just use plastic tanks on my bikes. Answer to the fuel tap is yes theres plenty off clearance between tap and cylinder head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully m92 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Woody is correct in what he says but them tanks are as rare as hens teeth. and would probbaly cost more. to be honest i only got the alloy tank for show alot off money if you fall off and dent it i just use plastic tanks on my bikes. Answer to the fuel tap is yes theres plenty off clearance between tap and cylinder head. Alright Chris, any idea when you would like us to pop over? Cheers Hywel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 hello Hywel sorry didnt get back to you been up the wall with 1 thing and another. satdays ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem75 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 As previously noted pre 75 prototype motocrossers and road race bikes did have the serial number starting with 100xxx. Many suggest this may be mistaken for a model 10 or model 100. They aren't mistakes. Bultaco did number their prototype bikes this way. After 1975 the factory likely didn't have a benefit for numbering prototype bikes like that. Hence we have prototypes like the m133 Sherpa ... The m141 montjuich or the m154 metralla. Each of which would have logically been the next evolution of the model. I have the factory production lists with prototype numbers attached that also state where these prototypes were sold to and who they were sold to. I'm happy to send copies if anyone would like to see them. I also have decent color pics of prototype engines and frames as well. To put to rest another question many have ..... All bultacos..... All of them,.....left the factory with matching frame and engine numbers. If you have one with non matching numbers they were changed by the importer or somewhere down the line by a second or third owner. Be it comerfords, or cemoto east or cemoto west or a privateer. Doesn't matter. They left the factory matching. Export tarriffs in the 70's prevented Bultaco from doing it any other way. No doubt many units were bought new with non matching numbers but with great certainty they didn't leave the factory like that. They were changed after leaving Spain. One can speculate that after about early 81 that the factory threw together whatever they had and numbers may not match but I would be very very sceptical of that. As for the Numbered frame in the picture I fear I must agree that the numbers stamped do not look to be genuine but rather stamped as and aftermarket type frame. Hard to tell when not seeing up close. Vesty, lampkin, Rathmell, schrieber... All rode factory prepped bikes or bikes prepped by local importers such as the well known reg may comerfords models. They likely had pre production models or very very low serial number of a given model for riding each year. If engine issues came up then likely they would have a completely new engine installed when required. It's anyone's guess as to how the engine was numbered. If numbered at all. When it comes to Bultaco model numbers remember this..... Always refer to them by the model number. A 1975 Sherpa t means nothing to a parts person. But a m159 vs a m 151 does. If your bike has serial # 6678 of a given model then at least that many were built regardless of what someone tells you. Steve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Hi Good post SteveM, I wouldn't disagree with anything. Woody is correct about the M198B / M199B tanks. They were different to earlier (M198A / M199A) tanks and constructed in a different way -- more welded sheets than the pressing and shaping of the earlier tanks. On mine though, the welded seams were very vulnerable to leaks and cracks, especially the seam just above the tap. Has yours been so repaired Woody ?? Edited January 30, 2014 by sparks2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewson Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) My old 199B with alloy tank Edited January 30, 2014 by hewson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewson Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) And another other Edited January 30, 2014 by hewson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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