Novice Novices & Not So Novice Novices!

[greeni]

So when do you go from Novice to Clubman?

There seems to be a lot of talented and skillful novices, who've been trialling for years and seem to clear all sections all day.... Shouldn't they go up a class? Or do they like the glory and fear a challenge?

Edited February 25, 2014 by greeni

[asc]

clubman/middle route to hard route is the biggest problem as it is a big jump in severity and when it goes wrong you get hurt.

trouble is many 040 and some clubmen are still very good riders and some must get fed up of older ex experts winning every week on very few marks when the rest are dropping cricket scores....i really don't know the anserw to this problem,when you go up north the clubmen is like the hard route at many clubs and expert is like btc expert route,you'll never please everyone.just ride what you feel happy with as many do...hence super novices

[toetoe]

i don't think it is much to do with skill level, it is more down to the persons character, i personally like to push myself and like to feel a bit scared although i will always have a go at it, i think that makes me very competitive where as some people can just plod along at the same pace and get the same out of it as i would, it is good that you can chose for yourself what group you ride in, on the day, it caters for all.

[mokwepa]

Hi

Our club is pretty relaxed but if you start winning clubmans all the time, the guys will (in a friendly way) put preasure on you to move up to intermediates. There are exceptions though, a chap on a TY that rides very well and is almost always in the top 3. There is however quite a gap between club and intermediate and his machine of choice would battle to keep up with the obstacles.

We run clubman, intermediate, expert, masters B and masters A.

[jackoo40]

As an Over 40 riding the clubman route (normally the middle route in the North West/Yorkshire) I often don't drop that many, but, with dodgy knee's and my own business to run I can't risk throwing myself at big rocks etc, so yes for a lot of us perhaps its fear. I guess if asked I would happily ride on a no award basis, so others can pick awards and get the encouragement they need.

Green routes and 50/50 have been a good development as well and these do give you a chance to push a little harder without having to risk the big stuff.

[totalshell]

i believe its all about section severity.

if you plot a novice route that is tough enough to only take less than 15 from the bottom half of the novice class those at the top of the class will not want to ride it and choose a more appropriate route..

[dan williams]

This is a subject that has long been debated with the argument that better riders should move up to give new riders a chance to win a lower class. On the surface this sounds reasonable but here's where the argument fails. The majority of riders ride for fun. That majority is what makes it possible to have events. Force them to move where they don't have fun and they quit. New riders also are in it for fun with the exception of a talented few that will move up the ranks. What I find amusing is people (usually not in the lower classes I might add) will complain that a lower class is too crowded so they will "fix" the "problem". This usually takes the form of mandatory promotion which is followed by a slow decline in riders which is followed by the need to "fix" the "problem" of declining ridership. A too crowded lower class is the best problem to have. There are essentially two types of classes in trials, feeder classes full of duffers like myself who provide the majority of the financial and worker support that make events possible and the upper classes where the talented and improving riders live. By the very nature of the competition there is only a small percentage of the total ridership that has the ability to get into these higher levels and this points out another of those misguided "fixes" that are applied from time to time. You don't grow a sport by changes to the top classes. World round no-stop, time-limits, changing the name (mototrials, what a completely asinine idea) or roman candles attached to handlebars shooting rainbow fireballs out at every dab will have very little effect on the health and future of the sport.

What does have a very real effect on the health and future of the sport is making sure the feeder classes are full of duffers and newbies and their friends who were told to come try this sport and neighbors who were loaned an old bike and allowed to ride and children and wives/girlfriends who just want to be with dad/hubby. From this crowd will emerge the talented and the driven. Make the bottom classes fun and accessible and you will grow the sport. The top classes will take care of themselves. One of the things that we used to do in New England that was great was have a beginner class that was mixed adult and child with split lines for small wheels. Beginners would have their own loop to keep them separated from the main loop for safety and so they wouldn't be intimidated by the loop and traffic. The group would be brought around by an experienced rider who would instruct and encourage each rider while getting a work credit for the event. Fun was had, learning took place and lifelong friendships were made regardless of the difference in ages. Often the beginner instructor was a top nationally ranked rider. Imagine being an 8 year old riding his first trials and your guide/instructor for the day is the current national champion Geoff Aaron or national number 5 Ron Commo. That is how you make lifelong trials riders.

Keeping the feeder classes full and happy is how you grow the sport. Riders will leave as they get older and life intrudes. That is inevitable. It is why the pipeline must be fed from the bottom and why forced promotion is the most dangerous suggestion that can rear its ugly head.

Sadly we don't do the instructed beginner class anymore in New England. That practice was "fixed" by someone with a "better" idea which has reduced the beginner/novice class over the past few years to two or three riders from a typical 20+ with the old beginner class. Now we send them out on the loop with the big boys and the typical beginner rides one or two events, decides it's too hard and quits. Funny anecdote is the people responsible for pushing the measures that destroyed the beginner class refuse to see the connection with falling membership and choose to blame the economy, politics and anyone who opposed the changes. After saying the above in a local forum I became a pariah here and have nothing to do with organizing trials anymore.

Learn from our mistakes. If your lower classes are full don't do anything that screws them up. They are a success! Find out what makes them popular and do more. It is the best way you can grow the sport.

Edited February 25, 2014 by dan williams

[sherconoob]

thanks for that, dan. some useful stuff for me to keep in mind when planning out sections in there, remembering not to make things too tough and realise many riders focus more on the fun factor than a tough challenge.

[telecat]

Yorkshire Centre Grades on Centre Ratings. Novice, Intermediate and Expert. No Age ratings and they all run the Hard Course. Clubmen run on the Easier course. This was recently split into A and B with Age ratings on both. Generally the O/40's and O/50's tend to be the Hard course riders finally giving in to their age.

[dan williams]

There is the dichotomy of age. What scares novices does not scare older riders who are moving back down the ranks and that is a problem as they are not moving down for technique but for endurance. That can lead to novice sections that suffer from "creeping elegance" where the old guys who set up the sections set them up for themselves. Fear is important to consider in the lower classes. We had one event here where the novices had to ride down a 30' rock face. Technically easy but scary as ****. When I questioned the trialsmaster he said it was easy and don't worry about it. As I expected one of the younger riders got to the top, panicked and grabbed a handful of front brake and took a 30' tumble. She never rode again. Her brother and father have since quit also. The same trialsmaster had a 3' novice dropoff onto a slippery root. Again another young rider crashed and I found her in tears on the side of the trail. She never came back nor did her brothers and father. Both of these obstacles were so unnecessary for the bottom class. You can not make the bottom class too easy. Remember a rider in a higher class can move up if it is too easy but the only way to go if it's too hard is out of the sport and we all know it takes a while just to learn how to turn a trials bike.

[nh014]

Dan's comments are absolutely spot-on and what New England trials has experienced can also be applied to District 6 trails in Pennsylvania. One only has to look at the eight meet 2013 season where six of the eight meets saw five or less Novice riders. And this from a District that also used to see 20+ riders in the Novice class.

By contrast Mid-Atlantic Trials runs combined modern and vintage meets in MD and PA that that typically will draw more attendees than the D-6 modern meets. The difference between the two is in the level of difficulty, especially in the Beginner and Novice classes. Not everyone has the desire to be a National class rider and the MAT website sums it best in this quote ... "We are not observed trials for the very best riders. We are trials for the rest of us, who still want to challenge ourselves, but with the emphasis on having fun".

And Dan, I'm with you in regard to the name "Mototrials". I still cringe every time I hear or read it.

[mokwepa]

Dan : anyone tell you how smart you are ?

Our club has realised this issue this year. I started trials in may last year and only stuck to it because i was born with a seriously competitive nature. I set goals for myself and reached them very slowly.

Last year, every trial I thoroughly enjoyed but I was left feeling like all my practice (and lots of it) was not getting me anywhere. I felt frustrated and trained harder. Next trial, same thing. All the big boys were finishing with good scores and mine/clubbies were way into the double sometimes tripple digits. I climbed the ranks point wise but the points and how I battled still bugged me.

This year it was decided by our club to make clubmans a true entry level class. We all still ride at the same skill level but on easier sections and get better scores. Its a mental thing. We still finish in the same positions but with a better score and more confidence. ...all fired up for the next event.

I got a first in my last event and have tons of events lined up this year and a really tough (for me) two day national event in April. I am fired up more than ever now that I feel like im riding well and progressing and my score is a bit more respectable.

Long story short: the guys that purely ride for fun, would like to ride and enjoy, not push or lift over momentous obstacles. The guys that want to be competitive, also want to ride but not be embarrassed.

We all want to feel like we "rode" well at the end of the day.

For me personally, if I stay in the top 3 in clubmans for a few more events.....I will gladly move up a class to increase the my knowledge and increase the challenge. My ultimate goal in trials is to be in the top 3 of intermediates. Realistically, I dont expect to go further but I guess its always a possibility

Edited February 25, 2014 by mokwepa

[dan williams]

That's great that you want to move up. But if you had to move back or only wanted to stay a clubman that's fine too.

One of the guys I used to love riding with here was a guy named Pete. A late middle aged guy who was profoundly deaf, missing a few finger tips, kinda scruffy looking, rat of a bike. It was obvious the man had a hard life. We hit it off immediately. Nicest guy in the world. We'd meet on the trail and he'd animatedly tell me how things were going with a lot of pointing and laughing as I tried to communicate with pidgeon sign language and he'd do his best to talk. It occurred to me once that to an outsider it probably looked like a lot of hand flapping and grunting but we understood each other in a way that's hard to explain. Pete rode beginner class the whole time he was in NETA and loved it. He'd ride into a section and smile so wide the woods lit up. One day when I was checking an event I saw Pete in the pits and rode my new Beta to his car, parked it and asked if he'd like to take it for a putt. He very carefully got on the bike and took it for about ten minutes of beginner type stuff. Came back with an ear to ear grin so I mouthed "Yours for the day." His eyes went wide and he got off and backed away shaking his head. I explained I was working and he couldn't crash it anyway I hadn't and he was welcome to ride it. The hardest thing to explain was what I tell anybody who rides my bikes. If you get in trouble throw the bike. I can fix it. If you get injured I can't fix you. At the end of the day I came out of the woods and there he was with the bike by my truck practically vibrating he was so excited and happy.

I've had a lot of great trials moments, Jordi Tarres trick riding for me in Luxembourg, Losing a massive hand of acey-ducey playing cards in Belgium with the US TdN team and hearing Ryan Young laugh so hard I thought he was gonna blow a gasket. Drinking truly terrifying whiskey with Wick Wicker and getting hugs from Marilyn. Being treated as family by the Commo clan. Watching Amos Bilbao ping broccoli of Dale Malasek's head at the after event dinner banquet in Ontario Canada. Being served Champaign at the same banquet by Jordi Tarres.

But for the sheer joy of trials nothing beat the look on Pete's face after that trials. That's what I think of when I hear of "mandatory promotion" and why it feels wrong. I've never heard someone in the beginner class complain they didn't trophy because there were better riders. If you ride for a beginner trophy seems like you're in it for kinda the wrong reason anyway.

Edited January 20, 2015 by dan williams

[breagh]

Great posts Dan.

My feelings are the beginners and specially the first timers are the most important riders at the trial.

How they are treated is critical to the future of trials.

Once riders are up and running they can take care of themselves.

But they need the stepping stone to get them there.

Keep it nice and simple at grassroots.

Think like a beginner if you want a successful club I would say.

[martin 305]

Some great stuff in this thread !!! We run club trials down in somerset and at the last trial had an entry of 80ish , with 24 of them kids !!!!! As Dan says with a conducted route for the beginners ,

Some of last years beginners have now moved on to the easy route and fathers have now got bikes to ride with them so it makes for a more family orientated day out .

All clubs have difficulty with the vastly different skill levels of the riders on the easy route ,mainly because of the one route to cater for so many different classes , one way we found to thin out the ones that wanted a bigger challenge but didn't have the confidence Was to introduce a 50/50 route to sort of give that little step between the easy route and clubman route , using 5 of the easier clubman sections and 5 of the harder novice ones . This has slowly gained popularity and requires no extra work for the setting out team .All we need now is some dry weather so the sections aren't all like riding on ice :-)