Looking for opinions - father and son starting out

[ChrisCH]

13 hours ago, lowside said:

Following your post, it just occurred to me.  If I go for a 125 now, I could keep it whilst my son is on the 80, then hand the 125 down to him, part-exing the 80 against a 250 for me in 3-4 years time.

Aside from the obvious capacity difference, is the rest of the OEM kit on a bike generally the same between 125/250/300?  The prices seem to suggest so.

The newer 125s are really good.  They can be a bit aggressive as Tim points out simply because they are designed to be competitive for youth riders.  Your pass it on strategy is OK.  The good thing for you is being open to alternatives which means you can evaluate individual bikes as they come up rather than having your heart set on model X capacity Y Year Z.  That will help you get something half decent in budget.  Bear in mind a 125 will have had more stick if it is an older bike as the younger riders have pushed it harder (if they are any good of course).

The cycle parts are pretty much standard and the 125 rear shocks will accomodate heavy youth riders if they have to ☺️

As to test rides there are some places (like Inch Perfect) that offer such an option.  Depends where you are in the country.  Personally I think you need to ride a bike a month or two to really decide.  Even then you need to have ridden lots of others in order to have a comparison.  So basically you are taking a chance and as such I suggest just buy a well known and decent brand in good condition and see how you get on.  Resist the temptation to spend hundreds modifiying the bike for "problems" and accept you need to just practice and ride more.  If you bought wisely and paid the true value you can sell it on easily enough and try something else next year.

I wanted a 250 but could only buy a 280 - it was all that came up (going back 3-4 years).  The 250s were advertised on Wednesday and sold by Friday before I could go look.  Such was the market at the time.  I rode the 280 for a couple of years (have a 250 now).  It was far more than I needed (as is the 250 to be honest) but with care it rode OK.  If you want to get any good you will need to spend time at static balance.  You can do that on the lad's Oset.  Engine capacity and brand are not the main issues.

You are in the same position as a new driver asking which car to buy.  People like their Ford or BMW or whatever, but mostly they are talking to themselves or patting themselves on the back for having a particular car.  Hey, they are all boring boring boring tin boxes.  All trials bikes are exciting.  You will not be dissapointed.

[Glayne]

22 hours ago, lowside said:

Were I not so heavy, I'd definitely go for a 125 based on my experience so far at lessons.  It was just a little jittery, which might have been fuelling, but I think more likely to have been my weight. lol.  The only ones I'm ruling out are 280's and 300's, even though, particularly the 300's seem to be cheaper.

I really like my 280 and would prefer to go for another 280 if I were to upgrade. It took a couple hours to get used to and I might still be better on my old 250. I find the 280 to be more fun! and I am by far no expert. I also weigh 225 pounds (16ish stone)

[lowside]

You guys are great.  Theres some really solid information here and I thank you all.

I have a bit of an update for those who are interested.  I've been out bike hunting today.  I must have looked at 30 bikes or more, had 2 out and running.  It was a lot of information to take in, but I might have made a decision.

OSET is now definitely going to be off the table for our lad.  It sort of was already (hence me going on about Beta).  I think because we plan to have full days out riding and treat it like a day at the seaside (picnics etc) that they just don't have the battery life and I don't want the logisitics of carrying, or indeed charging multiple batteries in advance.  I'm going to confirm the size of Beta 80 he requires by taking him to our local dealer.  The guidelines from Beta don't really help, as they say 8+.  He's just turned 8, but already 142cm tall (4ft 8"), so I have a feeling he might be better off on the senior, but need to check to be certain.

As for my bike, I looked in detail at 2 bikes today.  One was a 2020 Sherco Factory, the other a 2021 TRS OneR.  Both 250 2T.  I've concluded that I will likely outgrow a 125 in time and if I'm after a late model bike, I might as well double down and invest in a 250.  I went balls deep as a youth in the same way, going straight from a 125 to a 1200.  It's all in the wrist, isnt it?

Condition on the bikes I had out in daylight was good, but neither was a minter.

Out of all the bikes I viewed today, the best condition according to age belonged to a 2018 Montesa 260 Repsol which I had a brief look at but dismissed, perhaps wrongly.  It had been well used, just seemed to weather it better, or maybe it's just pure chance.  Anyway, as a result, I've added the Montesa 260 to my list of possibles for me.  It's a different proposition I think, but it's hard to argue with Honda's build quality and reputation.  I realise they ride differently to 2T and require a specific approach in mud, but as I'm not converting over from 2T, maybe it's doable.  A question for my instructor maybe.

It was a worthwhile day out, as I've now much more of an idea of the fit, finish and equipment levels of various brands/models. It was an eye opener actually in some respects.  Let's just say, if I'm paying £8000 for a new offroad bike, I'd expect frame bungs, yknow, so the paint doesn't get chipped, leading to rust on the frame.  Baffling.

I've put some enquiries in, so either they will pan out, or I'll keep looking.

A special note regarding Vertigo, who win the award for most complicated model naming.  Goodness me, what was it again, a Vanilla Ice Horizontal Combat Ninja 250 RR?  Still, did see a nice red one.

Edited April 13, 2023 by lowside

[ChrisCH]

LOL.  Sounds like you are having fun.  Upping the budget is a good idea (sorry).  Later models are generally a better buy in my view.  The TRS  One R is a good machine and at that age probably would last you a good long time.  (Grease the chain adjusters day one)

Trials bikes get a hard life but there are some very nice ones out there riden by old farts like me that only use 4% of the ability of the bike. 

[trapezeartist]

5 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

Trials bikes get a hard life but there are some very nice ones out there riden by old farts like me that only use 4% of the ability of the bike. 

Trials bikes get a hard time while being ridden, but a lot of them get babied in the workshop. Filter cleaning, oil changing, new bearings, etc.... Most are probably far better cared for than the average road bike.

[ChrisCH]

2 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

Trials bikes get a hard time while being ridden, but a lot of them get babied in the workshop. Filter cleaning, oil changing, new bearings, etc.... Most are probably far better cared for than the average road bike.

Fair point.  I neglect my Suzuki GSX, the chain hasn't seen oil in a long time.

 

Mind you I haven't tried to ride over a tree trunk with it 😁

[lowside]

7 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

Trials bikes get a hard time while being ridden, but a lot of them get babied in the workshop. Filter cleaning, oil changing, new bearings, etc.... Most are probably far better cared for than the average road bike.

Having just watched my first youtube videos of the SSDT, they do seem to get a very hard time indeed.  The stream sections look like they would be much easier if just on the back wheel, so I plan on bringing my entire 2 hours experience to bear on my first trial and sparing my bike the danger. 😂  I wish.

[lowside]

Thanks in large part to feedback from you kind folk, we are now expecting delivery of two bikes on Thursday.  After much deliberation I settled on a Sherco 250 Fajardo Replica (need to change the stickers to say Desert Eagle .50...) and a spanking new Beta 80 Jr for my lad.  I very nearly bought a used Beta 80, but it would have been a sight unseen purchase (some 200 miles away) and I figured the support of my local dealer was more important than cash, thinking long term.  The 250 is too much bike for me, but I had a ride and even in my dimwitted hands, it pootled around the carpark just fine, without trying to kill me.  What sold the 2T was it's weight.  I love the Montesa's and I can see myself owning one in the future, but the extra weight I felt might hamper me starting out.

Lack of choice of 125's locally dictated the larger capacity.  I'll just have to be careful.  Wish I was 6 inches taller, kicking these things over when you're older and inflexible is like a weeks worth of the gym.

Thanks again everyone.  I'm off to start umpteen other forum threads about every subject imaginable whilst I work this all out...!

[ChrisCH]

12 hours ago, lowside said:

..  Wish I was 6 inches taller, kicking these things over when you're older and inflexible is like a weeks worth of the gym.

I am old and short.  The trick is to kick start it stood on the pegs.  Lean against a tree for the time being until you get your balance up to scratch.