GasGas Electric

[dan williams]

The waiting begins. Really looking forward to seeing how this develops. EM paved the way but they are really going to be hurting once a few more electrics get released and this latest prototype looks very interesting.

[Tr1AL]

sjtrials.com latest news for very brief video of this KTM version.

go to bottom of home page at useful links for the latest news 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Tr1AL

[konrad]

The thing I find most encouraging is the presence of a gear lever.  I think electric trials bikes can really benefit from having more than a single gear.

Here's a direct link to TR1AL's video: https://cdn.shopify.com/videos/c/o/v/b3dc92cae1a44327b32a105d2ab06e47.mp4

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by konrad

[curd1]

agreed. this prototype looks like they put an electric motor on the TXT gearbox. I would definitely want a clutch I'd feel lost without one. glad to see this. 

[ChrisCH]

This looks very similar to the German conversion kit that used the old GG bottom end.  There is a YT video of Raga on Spain's "quiet day" that looks also very similar.

I really like the Mecatecno but they have not really hit the market yet either.  Hopefully 2024 will see the start of more interest and activity, the Yam is going to be in the competitions as well.

[konrad]

14 minutes ago, ChrisCH said:

This looks very similar to the German conversion kit that used the old GG bottom end.

Yes, but pause the video at about 15 seconds.  You can see a bulge on the motor casing that I'm thinking is a rotary encoder.  I don't recall that on the German conversion.

[ChrisCH]

19 minutes ago, konrad said:

Yes, but pause the video at about 15 seconds.  You can see a bulge on the motor casing that I'm thinking is a rotary encoder.  I don't recall that on the German conversion.

I would not know if you dropped it on my foot 😁  The kit site is still live: https://www.eta-motors.com/

By the time you have bought a donor bike and a kit you have spent as much as an EM.  We are at the importers (EM) on Thursday for a short training session, I will report back if I get any news (and if I get any tips about vertical lift from a standstill as I know you are interested)

[bikerpet]

Looking very "prototype", but great to see them getting back onto the program. Fingers and toes crossed that they now do some serious R&D on it and bring something really good to market.

It's a shame there's so much music over the video, you only get glimpses of the motor sound.
It did sound like it might be a fairly high RPM motor, which I think's a good thing as it means there can be much more energy stored in the flywheel per unit weight. You can see there's still the standard flywheel cover, but no clues if there's actually a flywheel in there or just the motor. My guess is going for just the motor, which would help explain why there's no video of Busto doing any of his trademark big splatters & gaps. Without a decent flywheel that aint happening.
I reckon listening to the motor spin up is a good indicator of flywheel mass - if it spins up significantly faster than an ICE bike does then it's probably not got enough inertia.

I'd love to know if they've stuck with the Plettenberg Nova 15 motor that the previous TXT-e used. Good chance they have as it's a known fit to the standard GG clutch and it's a quality motor.

15 hours ago, konrad said:

You can see a bulge on the motor casing that I'm thinking is a rotary encoder.

I haven't checked, but I'd be very surprised if the Plettenberg on the ETA conversion didn't use an encoder, I can't see a quality focused company like Plettenberg using Hall's. I don't know of any reason you'd use halls except to save money, & Plettenberg aren't a good option for saving money!

15 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

I really like the Mecatecno but they have not really hit the market yet either.

I like the look of them too, but it's such a shame they dropped the gearbox the prototype had - I almost completely lost interest when they did that.
From what I've heard they suffer a bit the same as the EM - not enough flywheel and tend to run out of puff at the top end.
It seems it's difficult to get the ideal torque/power curves out of electric trials bikes. Perhaps it's because they tend to be so weight constrained - it's tough to substitute mass of steel and copper in a motor.

14 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

By the time you have bought a donor bike and a kit you have spent as much as an EM.

Sounds like good value to me! You get the proven chassis of GG, one of the best clutches out there and gears.

On 12/25/2023 at 10:33 AM, konrad said:

The thing I find most encouraging is the presence of a gear lever.  I think electric trials bikes can really benefit from having more than a single gear.

It's absolutely beyond me why anyone thinks having a single gear capable of 50-60kmh is a good idea on a trials bike! It's a complete joke as far as I'm concerned. Even with a really serious amount of flywheel inertia it just isn't the same to dump a clutch into a high gear ratio.
When you combine such high gearing with insipid, lightweight rotating mass how on earth are you going to get anything like the performance of current ICE trials bikes? You're not. The fact Gael can get so much out of the EM is a testament to his skill as a rider.
I'm not at all convinced an e-trials needs 6 gears, but 2 or 3 - Absolutely.

My e-trials is far lighter than any of the bikes above and I believe it probably has significantly more flywheel inertia and lower gearing, and it's still not equivalent to a current ICE bike off the clutch.
One of the problems is that if you dump the clutch with max rpm on the flywheel then the back wheel is going to try to accelerate to top speed. We don't want the back wheel hitting the face of an obstacle at 50kmh! What we want is the back wheel to accelerate REALLY fast to quite a low top speed, maybe 15-20 kmh.
Perhaps a low gear could help? What a novel idea!

I'm hanging out for the first e-trial bike to come out with 2 or 3 gears (one about equivalent to 1st/2nd on an ICE), several KG of real flywheel (not just the motor rotor) and a good clutch. Ideally around 70kg max.
 

[Tr1AL]

https://youtu.be/JS7H6Gts9ik?feature=shared

[sectionone]

There are several electric dirt bike brands using a 4 speed pit bike gearbox and the general consensus is it doesn't need that many gears and the ideal would be 2 gears with the highest a road gear to save battery while going fast.

Since you don't need to shift while in section, the low hanging shift lever should be moved up and away from rocks. No use for neutral but reverse would be nice by switching polarity with a handlebar switch.

Mecatechno doesn't have a flywheel and some high level riding is done with it. I'd like to see an e-trials bike with a clutch and two gears at half the price of the current ones.

[bikerpet]

I expect 2 speed is sufficient, but reserve judgement that a second trials gear might be useful occasionally. I can't really see point in reverse, anything added is going to fail or cause trouble at some point so cost:benefit doesn't add up to me.

I'm very firmly of the view that a clutch without a decent flywheel is only slightly better than nothing. To get the same performance electrically is going to be very expensive and take some major controller software development, if it's even possible.

The EM & the Dragonfly are no doubt very capable bikes, but I maintain they're handicapped by lack of gears & significant flywheels.

Maybe the GG will close the gap. Sadly I can't see the price dropping significantly for a little while yet.

[sectionone]

There are 2024 bikes at half the price of EM EPure. No clutch but titanium frame option. Base model is only $100 more than the new Oset 24.

https://arctic-leopard-usa.com/trial/

[bikerpet]

Call me cynical, but I reckon you'll get what you pay for.
Probably OK for a bit of a play, but not even close to comparable to EM, Dragonfly or GG.

I've got a mate who's looking at selling them, waiting to hear his review.

[bikerpet]

On 12/26/2023 at 12:44 AM, konrad said:

Yes, but pause the video at about 15 seconds.  You can see a bulge on the motor casing that I'm thinking is a rotary encoder.  I don't recall that on the German conversion.

I looked up Plettenberg's manual - they use Hall effect as standard, but can also supply other options. Surprised me a little.
But then it might not be a Plettenberg motor in this prototype, or this could be one of their "custom encoder and positioning sensors."

[konrad]

Looks like I can post again.  My prior post was in limbo awaiting moderation - perhaps because it contained a Facebook link?  That link showed a water pump on the old GG design where there now appears to be an encoder. 

My impression about the original Plettenberg design was that it used an "observer algorithm" in the controller.  This is better than Hall sensors, but computationally intensive.  An encoder is more expensive, but better for an application like motorsports.