konrad Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 (edited) Prototype electric trials bike with a 4-speed gearbox 59 km range (would seem to be when using the larger battery) 1.8 kWh or 2.5 kWh battery Peak power of 19 kW Provides tuneability via EM Connect app Clutch is accessible like a normal motorcycle. Claimed to have dropped the weight by 4 kg too. Production to commence "next month" so, February 2024. Mr. Google translated for me, "On the occasion of the magnificent evening that was organized for us in the premises of its brand new and immense new factory, the Héraultaise company presented us with its brand new motorcycle, the FACTOR E, which represents an incredible evolution in the field of trial motorcycles, electric. We listened to the words of Gael Chatagno who told us of this bike that it was at the level of the 300 Thermal and it is on its handlebars that he will participate in the entire Trial 2 World Championship and the French Elite Championship. The powertrain is much more powerful and now has a 4-speed gearbox. The weight distribution is different which makes the bike more playful and more stable. The battery (2.5) has 30% more autonomy, which gives it a range of 60 kilometers. The swingarm is new, the shock absorber is what is best at Tech., same for the Fork The FACTOR E goes into production next month, so you think how we can't wait to try it ." Edited January 12 by konrad more information 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Looks like they've upped their game. Much nicer looking bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 https://youtu.be/Kjbx2UQNTCc?feature=shared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerpet Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 No mention of the new motor. Seems odd not to mention the heart of a motor-cycle. Looks considerably smaller so presumably higher RPM. That's a good thing I reckon - faster spinning flywheel. Appears it's finally received a decent sized flywheel, and a clutch to match. This could be the long awaited e-trials that starts to nip on the heels of the ICE bikes. I'm staggered it's taken so long to travel around the circle and recognise there's good reason for a big flywheel, clutch capable of using that flywheel and gears to adjust power delivery characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 12 hours ago, bikerpet said: ... This could be the long awaited e-trials that starts to nip on the heels of the ICE bikes. I'm staggered it's taken so long to travel around the circle and recognise there's good reason for a big flywheel, clutch capable of using that flywheel and gears to adjust power delivery characteristics. I agree, but I would guess that the weight issue has been holding back development. If battery technology moves on and gives us a lighter and more powerful "fuel" then things will really move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 Very short clip of it in action at Montpellier. I am sure the full vidoe will be online in the next few days. (Gael came last....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 (edited) Admittedly, it's a bit hard to tell but that looks more like a 2024 production bike to me. Regardless, nice backflip at 0:51! Edited January 13 by konrad added timestamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 I found it here: https://trialworld.es/asi-es-la-revolucionaria-electric-motion-factor-e-2025/ "este prototipo debutará hoy mismo en competición con Gael Chatagno en el Trial Indoor de Montpellier." There the interview with Colomer (thanks Tr1AL) as well but my Spanish is not good enough to keep up with the speed of the interviewer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted January 14 Author Report Share Posted January 14 (edited) More information via ChrisCH's link: Completely new chassis in geometries and reinforcements TECH TJ2 two-way shock absorber S3 Parts Handlebar DID chain step 520 S3 Parts Grips New aesthetics and FACTOR-E bodywork Homologation as a 125cc motorcycle Weight in running order: 73 Kg Completely new engine. More power, more inertia, more revolutions (17,000!) Four speed gearbox New mechanical clutch with Kevlar discs Controller with new settings Completely new 1.8 kWh battery in interior and structure Renewed transmission system 1,400Nm motor torque (in first gear) Range of 59 kilometers Peak power 19kW Edited January 14 by konrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted January 14 Author Report Share Posted January 14 I've started a page to keep track of information about this exciting new motorcycle: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/em-factor-e 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 Given that usable torque is available over a huge speed range, I'm still struggling to understand the benefits of a 4-speed gearbox. I would prefer to shed some weight instead. More power? I only ride on the green map anyway, and I doubt there are many people using the red at all. Personally, coming from the background of owning a '21 race and riding easy route, my wishlist would be: Less weight No need for a clutch, but keep the rest of the Race powertrain More ground clearance A way of getting a super-smooth low-power mode for tight slippery turns but also a sharp snap off the bottom to lift the front over obstacles (maybe EM-connect does that) Better paint quality Better fit of plastics Better prop-stand Lower price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted January 14 Author Report Share Posted January 14 45 minutes ago, trapezeartist said: Given that usable torque is available over a huge speed range, I'm still struggling to understand the benefits of a 4-speed gearbox. Although the ePure's motor does make a lot of torque, its driving force at the rear wheel is still lower than ICE bikes in a low gear. This section is far from finished, but it may help: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/what-makes-a-good-trials-motor Although all the sub-pages are important to gaining a fuller understanding of the problem, this one may answer your question: https://www.electricmotiontech.com/home/what-makes-a-good-trials-motor/driving-force-comparison#h.qosto0nr8kmc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 Considering EM’s past range estimates, I guess real world range will be about 30km Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerpet Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 (edited) On 1/15/2024 at 12:58 AM, trapezeartist said: Given that usable torque is available over a huge speed range, I'm still struggling to understand the benefits of a 4-speed gearbox. You're in the company of a lot of people, but I think it reflects a common misunderstanding. I completely understand how it's arrived at, I just don't think it takes into account some of the key aspects of trials. For people like yourself riding easy route and without clutched maneuvers then you're probably on the money. But as soon as you start looking at maneuvers where the clutch is used it changes dramatically, even at relatively modest skill levels. If you take something at the more extreme end of the scale, a splatter onto a big vertical say, then gearing becomes dramatically important. You want to accelerate from virtually stationary incredibly quickly in order to rotate the bike and generate lift. However you only want to accelerate to a relatively low speed (you really don't want the back wheel to hit that face at 50kmh!). So how do you accelerate super fast to a very low top speed? Answer - use a low gear. Using a high gear makes it virtually impossible to limit the top speed and extremely hard to get that really, really fast acceleration. Yes, the guns will use 2nd, 3rd & even 4th gear for some obstacles, but I believe they are selecting the gear to adjust their target top speed more than anything, which reinforces the idea that gears are really very useful. The same principle holds throughout the skill levels. Bikes like the Pure Race and the Dragonfly with just one gear capable of 50-60kmh are massively limited in their ability to produce radically fast acceleration and low top speed. I think there's also considerably more detail in there around why it's hard to replace a flywheel/clutch, but that's the crux of it. I've had an electric trials with a 2-speed box, and I can absolutely say that it is dramatically different having that low 'trials' gear compared to just a single 'trail' gear. I'm not convinced you need 4 gears, maybe 3. But making a 3 speed shifter is the same as a 4 speed except for the missing gear wheel - you might as well put in all 4 for the few extra grams. The 17,000 rpm motor represents a massive upgrade, to my thinking. I've long thought the prevailing wisdom that trials needs a slow torquey motor is a big misunderstanding once you move beyond easy-route riding. The basis for my belief is that A. There is as yet no practical replacement for a flywheel & B. flywheels store energy proportional to the square of their RPM and diameter but directly proportional to mass, so it is more weight efficient to either spin a flywheel fast or make it larger diameter. It's harder to fit a big flywheel into the drivetrain of a trials bike than it is to make an electric motor spin faster, so best reward is likely to come from a high revving motor. There is effectively almost no difference between useable torque at the tyre from a slow motor geared down a small amount and a fast motor geared down a lot. Overall you gain far more by spinning a fast motor than a slow one - if you have a flywheel involved. EDIT: I was quite rightly corrected about energy increasing by the square of radius also, updated the paragraph above. Seeing this 17K RPM figure makes me tend to agree with @konrad that the VW logo on the bike might possibly relate to the motor? It's pretty hard to find quality motors of this power level and that sort of RPM range - pretty limited number of niche manufacturers and they tend to be astronomically high prices. So perhaps a deal with VW has given them access to a higher volume production motor at a good price? Not sure what VW would need such a motor for, but they're a massive, sprawling empire so who knows what they have in the stable. No clue, just makes me wonder. Edited January 16 by bikerpet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 @trapezeartist Have you seen this , and of course just in balance to a geared E- Trial Bike for anyone that is interested. https://youtu.be/maZcbqIWYzY?feature=shared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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