nsaqam Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 I just got my new MotoTrialsport mag today and it seems Alan and Lane were seen together in late June/early July at the TTC! Check out page 32! Just an attempt at humor guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) Sorry Alan my post was poorly written and missed the point I was trying to make. You did do an excellent job of making a personal slam though. OUCH! I'll be honest, our personalities don't mesh very well but I like you and your a great perrson. Since I failed at my honest attempt to ask you some questions, you ask me the ones I failed to answer in the past! Then I'll attempt to not botch that up with my poor writing skills and rapid progression on topics. If you could hold back the insults, that would be nice also! I write even worse when I'm p****d OFF. But, if that's impossible, so be it. Maybe me being mad at you and Isherwood all the time impars my writing skills? Or maybe I just suck at writing? I know your positions Alan, you want to keep the Youth Nationals like they are and where they are at! You and I disagree on both the Adult AND Youth national foremats, which is OK! I simply get the impression that even discussing the issue of change is TABOO in some circles. Edited April 8, 2006 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 I think discussions are great, but when it get's to just beating a drum over and over again, I think it is counterproductive. There needs to be some give and take and some adjustments of position and some seeing the lights of the others side that occurs in a discussion. Two Base questions on the 125 "class". What Line? Who rides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) What line? We need to start somewhere! Not sure exactly what is the perfect solution for the 125cc national championship, because we now have Smage, Darrow,Webb and a lot of riders who would qualify for the 125cc world championship already on full size bikes. I doubt that they all would want to come back to 125's unless they would rather be 125cc national champion insted of 5th or 6th in the current US top pro class. That's an individual choice each rider would have to make for themselves, depending on whether they desired to ride the 125cc world title or concentrate only on beating Geoff at the US championship. To start somewhere, have them ride the sportsmen line! After all we are targeting the youngsters, not the established young Pro riders. Then the transfer bonus sections the best 5 ride, those sections could be at the European and 125cc world championship levels. This approach of easy and hard sections serves an interesting purpose. It forces the best riders to concentrate on the easy sections as well as perform on the tough final sections. It is common for great riders to make stupid mental mistakes on easy stuff, by combining easy and tough sections, our 125cc championship riders must do both. It creates a big feild of riders yet does not put the youngest in danger. The transfer final sections ridden by the best 5 will however challenge our best 125cc riders because they are on par with 125cc world round sections. After running the series a year, we can fine tune the process! Maybe add harder sections in the preliminary sections but again we have to start somewhere. Who rides? Anybody that wants to ride a 125cc machine! I realize the purpose of the 125cc national championship is to groom our youngsters for the 125cc world championship. Which is now the primary steppiing stone to the world trials championship. To be consistant, we will not require youngsters to stay on 125cc machines. To also be consistant, there is no reason we cannot have older lady riders or men also have a go in the 125cc national championship. The main reason for the need of a 125cc US title is to give riders a reason to say on the small bike. Now they don't, except perhaps for dreams of future world competition. Any young rider staying back on a 125cc bike is now at a disadvantage at the NATC nationals. The 125cc national title would simply give the more incentive to remain on a 125cc bike that is a disadvantage for NATC competition. Yet the 125cc bike is the best bike if a youngster hopes to contest the 125cc world title, the logical step to the world trials championship. Simply my opinion! Edited April 10, 2006 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 So, You are proposing, to add another class to the classes that are already there, that the sole criterea for entry is that you compete on a 125 machine. That class would ride on the already existing Sportsman Line. By Who, I meant Name Names that this was going to help, (or in other words, who would actually sign their name and pay their money) to compete in this class. (I personally doubt it would be well attended in the scenario that you have described) I must have mistook your past posts, as I understood you too have the stance that we already had way too many classes in the NATC championship. So, when the youngster (or I guess whoever) comes up and wins this class this year (I guess I mean this proposed class) and as you are proposing for the Youngsters (I thought, but now it seems to be just a displacement class) Where does he go in the progression? I obviously have not ridden the Jr. World Championship's, but I do not believe it to be a direct progression from our Sportsman Lines, to the Jr. World Champ Lines. Would we then add a 125 Expert Support line the next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 The NATC is fairly good at adding classes, that would not be a problem. In reality, I've proposed dropping some classes! We would drop the ladies class at the Nationals to be picked up at the youth nationals. Then Expert and Expert sportsmen would be combined with the Pro class. So the sum loss of my proposal was add one, drop three. For an overall loss of two classes, which is always a tough sell to the NATC, dropping classes. Who would ride? Your guess is as good as mine but perhaps I view the sport differntly than you "which is not a slam, just an observation." There is already a Women's and 125cc World Title, there is no world title for our age group classes, maybe there needs to be, but lets not go down that road now! That's the differnce between the ladies and 125cc national championship in my view. There is a world title for these two catagories and they are not really sportsmen classes, they are major championships sanctioned by the FIM. To treat them as just another sportsmen class is a BIG mistake in my opinion. Now, how do we provide the best progression for our ladies and 125cc riders to contest the exsisting world championship? That's really the question that I'd like to find the answer for. We do know for a fact, that switching back and forth between a 290 and a 125 displacement bike is tough, if a rider must ride at a world championship level. We also know for a fact that a lady rider must ride at a US pro level to beat Laia Sanz! So a sound approach for getting our youngsters ready for a 125cc world round might be offernig them a true national title to stay on a 125cc bike. Likewise for the ladies, we MUST offer them a way to work their way up through the men's NATC national ranks, something they can't do know and still be US ladies champion. I beleive that some people view the ladies national championship as just another sportmen class! It's not, it's the offical US Championship for women athletes in trials. It's the riders who will be on the US Olympic and TDN teams. That's also what the 125cc national title would be, the youngsters who plan to take on the world through the stepping stone of the 125cc world title. Then if they have success there, onto the World Wide One, "World Trials Championship" riding with Raga, Fugi and Lampkin. I believe we simply need to figure out how to get our best ladies to ride up through the men's classes and into Pro at the US nationals. While still maintaining their placing at the women's championship, which is the only way to keep their sponsors happy. Likewise for the kids, how do we keep them on 125cc bikes and on par with the rest of the world? My guess is by offering them an Offical ranking and possible 125cc national championship. Again, simply my guess and opinion on how to solve these two big problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcota Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Lane - It would be very interesting to know if you have ever in your 35+ years of riding experience ever, even once, setup a trials event or for that matter ever even worked an event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Yes, I checked at El Trial this past year! I also helped Mr. Bill with the kids class a ton at ITS, being the checker and kid wrangler for him for a couple of seasons. I also checked at the AHRMA national in Ohio in 2004 but maybe that dosn't count, they give first place points for checking. I helped establish the British American cup trial in Northern Califorina, plus came up with the idea for the Geritol Trophy Trial and organized the first 3 or 4 of them. Which is a trial for riders over 35 years of age. While I was riding for Bultaco, my girlfriend and myself organized events for extra cash, sort of like what Mr. Bill does today to supliment his retirement income. The Trial De state was also an event that Mr. Bill, myself and Trials comp organized. It piggybacks onto the youth nationals. Overall, I've organized about 20 trials! Also I Was one of the founding members of the NATC. How the NATC came about was I came to Dr Wagner with some concerns about the direction the sport was going. He took the challenge to do something positive and organized the first NATC meeting at Yamaha USA. Where we created the rules, choose the scedule and gave birth to the first NATC national series. I've also conducted week long training seminars at Donner, conducted lots of schools and have given lots of personel instruction, Including Dr Wagner helping him win his first national senior trials title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcota Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Very impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I thought this conversation was about lance armstrong and his purchase of a trials bike. 125 nationals belong in the other 3 (or is 4 or 5?) threads that are somewhat dedicated to 125s in america. That lance guy must have legs of steel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Quote: Mich Lin Well, the truth will set you free! ...If we are talking about the druggie Lance Armstrong then I can smugly, no...super-smugly, state that I think this bloke is a f****** t***, b******,c***-faced discharge on the face of mankind. He's got to go to jail, directly to jail, do not pass Go... Sorry, I just had to let that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Holy thread resurrection Batman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Quote: Mich Lin Well, the truth will set you free! ...If we are talking about the druggie Lance Armstrong then I can smugly, no...super-smugly, state that I think this bloke is a f****** t***, b******,c***-faced discharge on the face of mankind. He's got to go to jail, directly to jail, do not pass Go... Sorry, I just had to let that out You up on blocks again ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Holy thread resurrection Batman! Ahh, yes, I was using that database insert reputation algorithm you mentioned last time and the words Lance and Armstrong showed up... then my p!55 boiled over. I was trawling for something else actually. You up on blocks again ? Moon bike? Me? (See I remembered) Edited February 27, 2013 by ham2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0007 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Quote: Mich Lin Well, the truth will set you free! ...If we are talking about the druggie Lance Armstrong then I can smugly, no...super-smugly, state that I think this bloke is a f****** t***, b******,c***-faced discharge on the face of mankind. He's got to go to jail, directly to jail, do not pass Go... Sorry, I just had to let that out Well I beg to differ, I would be willing to bet that every one of the fast guys of that era (probably this one too) was doping or at least blood packing, Lance competed and won against other riders who were doing the same thing he was doing, everyone cheated and he just got caught because he beat the Europeans at their sport, every one else just has their fingers crossed that they don't get scrutinized When you look at other sports, athletes who pop just made a dumb mistake, the ones who don't got it right, and there are all kinds of things out there now that give similar results but are not banned At that level, if you don't cheat you don't win so its still pretty even Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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