What Would It Take?

[brian r]

Well, I think we're missing something.

Line 1 should be the World Round line.

Champs should ride the 2 line.

If we can get this hammered out lets do it

for the big picture.

I also think that our club should look at

doing the vintage classes the same as AHRMA.

Right now STRA has A,B&C lines

and AHRMA has 1,2,3. This might be something

to look at for the Year End meeting though.

[mich lin]

Brian, here's the problem, Geoff and the rest of the Pro class are big boys now. They are in the ONE class at the TDN. Remember they won class TWO by a mile last year.

To put our Pro riders down a class is an insult to the public. Not having them in the World Wide ONE at the TCC world round cost the USA 5 positions of world championship points, which is an outrage! Mismanagement of the team and perhaps a lost oppertunity for Geoff Aaron ever to score world championship points during his professional trials career. Which is beyond a shame!

The USA Pro class IS our world championship contenders, It's the best we have!

I agree with your vintage proposal.

Edited June 2, 2006 by Mich Lin

[spinner]

Stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is about our class structure ONLY!!!!!!!!!!

LETS LEAVE IT ABOUT THAT!

Thank You!

Sorry I had just read that last post any couldn't stand it any more!

Our top class should be #1

[brian r]

That's what got us in this mess.

I just think if we go through all this effort it should line

up with the rest of the world.

Fixing it now just to fix it again when we have challengers for the

World Rounds doesn't make sence to me.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/columns/wo/

[alan bechard]

Loved that one Ish, just shows how universal this stuff is.

OK, back to the class thing though.

1. lets not throw the net too far. We cannot seem to agree on 6 class names, lets not try and include WR level stuff as well. The handful of people that it would be applicable too, will know what class they need to ride.

2. Lets not go too far either, I am not trying to talk about kids, vintage, Womens, handicapped, Sr's etc. Let's try and narrow the focus down and come to some form of agreement on the "core" classes.

I would propose that most clubs run about 6 "lines" through the sections. By line, I mean a designated way to go through a section or a split. I am not saying that SA = A is a seperate line.

I will say that most clubs have about 6, just play along for a minute, even if you do not particularly agree.

Line 1

OK, I am starting at Novice, beginner, starter, the first folks that have control of the bike, but certainly not mastery. These folks obstacles consist of logs and obstacles generally under 12' or so, lots of tight turns, no clutch is usually needed to negotioate their sections. There is plenty of runout room and care is taken to avoid placing them in situations that if they "froze" on the controls, they would not drop off a cliff or the like.

Line 2

Some clubs will call this Int, some Sportsman. Little bit more control than line 1. Able to control a wheelie and have good placement of the front wheel. Can do slighltly larger obstacles but still need some runout room.

Line 3

Middle of the road kind of guy, many club riders ride this class. Obstacles are getting larger, some things like double blips are handy / needed to get through. Understands where his wheels are at all time's and has some balancing and clutch control.

Line 4

This is what I would call an Advanced rider, could succesfully complete a NATC national in the sportsman line, experienced rider with good bike control, able to execute advanced trials manuevers when needed. Some ability to hop etc. is advantageous.

Line 5

I would call it expert. Often the top class in a club. Able to compete in ES or E lines at an NATC national. Able to conquer large steps and obstacles, able to use suspension, throttle and clutch to overcome difficult situations. These guys the Trialsmasters are not looking for safety so much, they should be able to confidently navigate difficult terrain and plan for unforseen events.

Line 6

Champ, master, top dog.

The average trialsmaster sets sections for this class by tying the ribbon around a rock and throwing it on a hillside he is not confident walking on....

Guys that are competing on the NATC "Pro" level (or above)

There are a ton of other "classes" out there, but I believe very few different "lines" And maybe that is the distinction that should be made. We need to try and make the lines consistent, in a consistent order from club to club.

Now if we could just agree that 1 starts at the bottom or the top and who we are going to cover.... mabye if we could agree to that, we can hammer down class names a bit.

[onestophop]

If this gets enough support how would you try to implement the format at club level, and would you like to see the same class structure at the Nationals?

Terry

[alan bechard]

Nationals are run by the NATC. I do not believe that they have any inclination (nor do I personally see a need) to change their class structure.

As a sidebar, there are folks on here, Mich and NSAGM that believe there needs to be additional 125 classes in the national system but I would prefer not to stray down that path here.

How will we implement this.

As the USMTA stands up, that is one of it's missions, to provide some structure and uniformity to US trials at the club level. I believe that we can beat this ailing horse pretty well here, and present a submission to the USMTA that they will follow. The USMTA will then provide the information and hopefully act as a unifying body for club trials across the US. They will also be providing sample rulebooks and guidelines for start up clubs to follow along with.

It is really then up to the local clubs, if they are concerned about following a national standard or not.

There will be some clubs that will want nothing to do with it, the words, "we have always done it this way" will come up at their meetings and they will continue to run whatever classes that they desire.

There will be several clubs that I believe will treat it like they treat the NATC trials rules. Well, that is the standard that is set forth for trials in the US and we can comply with that. (much like the white ribbon thing the last couple of years)

Then I think there are some clubs that will sit in the middle, they will wait and see if other clubs adopt to the "standard" and then later possibly switch over themselves.

The point really, is there is no standard for a club to follow. This is a task that the USMTA is bitten into, but really, it takes the leg work of you and me and the folks on this board (as well as a ton of folks that could care less about computers) to make it a reality. We have to step up and come up with a consensus if we want to see it happen.

Otherwise, we can sit around and moan about how somebody, anybody and everybody should do it, except NOBODY actually did...

[ahamayfrank]

1. Champ

2. Expert

3. Advanced

4. (________)Sportsman

5. Intermediate

6. Novice

1. at the top 6. at the bottom (#s are most important)

with the above class names (I would prefer standardized names too)

Frank S.

[alan bechard]

The only problem I see with that Frank is that many clubs will not have that "top" class. (STRA did not a couple years ago) So (edited) some clubs would have #2-#6.

All clubs will have a "novice" or starter class.

Edited June 2, 2006 by Alan Bechard

[onestophop]

I've heard lots of things USMTA is wanting to tackle and things their "working on", but do we need another organziation? Why doesn't the NATC do what local clubs want them to do? USMTA is going to be a voice for local clubs correct? It sounds like the adding more classes theory. I'm on the email subscriber list with USMTA, but I've only seen a few in the last year.

Terry

[alan bechard]

Well, my view of reality is that the NATC is doing what they set out to do. And my limited dealing's with them, tell me that there is not much I am going to do to change them.

The NATC have no interest that I can discern in dealing with local club issues.

The USMTA was created to "fill that gap".

Is USMTA doing enough?

I don't know. I have not put the effort into it that I would like to say I should, and I imagine there are many others out there the same way.

The USMTA is US, not Them, or they or some abstract group of folks, but us, the interested trials riders trying our best to effect some positive changes.

I would say if you want to see more done on a particular issue, step up to the plate, volunteer to be the head of that committe and make it happen. I do not think there is anyone in the USMTA that will not applaud as you take a lead slot.

[motomax]

NETA has used this format for their events for many years.

1. Expert

2. Advanced

3. Intermediate

4. Novice

5. Beginner

We had a champ line when we had some riders for it but we dropped it a couple of years ago after our last champ guy left. We also have several youth/pee wee lines but that is a separate program. Our Sr classes include Sr B (nov), Sr A (int) and Sr Advanced. Vintage/Women rides novice line.

Our trialsmasters set up the events this way, 2 sets of 8 sections. The first set of 8 are novice with splits for intermediate (increased difficulty). The 2nd set are Expert with splits for advanced (decreased diffculty).

Advanced level is equal to Sportsman line at a National.

I would advocate the following:

1. Expert

2. Advanced

3. Intermediate

4. Sportsman

5. Novice

[copemech]

MotoMax, thanks for the great input as that is what we are looking for here!

[copemech]

Thoughts on recent comments!

I have to do this quickly as my memory is good, but short!

1- Brian, were talking strictly "club" level standard classes.

2- Alan, I think your descriptions are a knotch too high, but that is another topic, sort of.

3- Once again, MotoMax just advocated the six class system, although they are not currently using the top class, but that is OK, the naming is still consistant in the other 5.

Relativity,

For example, one of our top expert class riders here on a local and state level recently rode the 45 class I think it was, in Tish. He had a 14 pt day which is pretty darn good.

"Kicked back" Curt Comer waxed everyone with 2pts and then there was a reasonable spread with our guy coming in 6th place. Curt is an old pro though, and could ride up a class if he wanted, with no problem!

Point being, a Good local expert should typically do well in National support class.

A Good "advanced " rider may have a tough day but survives, and a poor one may not make it through a National, or may just have a bad day with a lot of work!

Our FEW top level riders here (master class in Texas) can ride the ES line, and are primarily in the HS class which is very competitive. They may be able to ride the EX line in the Nationals, but may struggle on the bigger stuff in the National Expert class. A look at Ronnie Commo's scores against such as Peters and Fox shows the spread, and Ronnie can ride with the best of HS class. Don't get me wrong here as Ronnie C. is intentionally stretching his abilities, which is good!

Remember, we still have to add a few splits or gates to keep a top national expert or pro happy! That is when we really start chunking the ribbin on a rock!

Seem so far most agree with:

1 Champ or Master

2 Expert

3 Advanced

4 Sporstman or Int.

5 Int., Sportsman, Clubman

6 Novice

I need a beer now!