mr clean Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I haven't gotten much action in the other forum so maybe there could be some help here. I picked up this old Honda Thumper in good shape, and want to know about weight reductions and improvements to the bike. Also any sources for aftermarket parts, frames, ergal, carbon fibre, titanium, helium, etc. Reducing weight of TL-250 Cheers and thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-eddy- Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Personaly i think the frame takes up most weight but i know **** all, tryed putting new bars on? thats the only thing i can think of thats easily changeable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 From the wide range of lightening techniques you already mentioned for your TL250, it sounds like you already know what is needed to get the TL down to a nice weight so why are you asking for more ideas? If you did all those things to your TL250, would it really still be a TL250? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted July 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hey guys, I wouldn't have thought of the seat mod if I didn't read about it somewhere. There may be other simple things that can be done that experienced experienced people here know about. I don't know where to buy things like the frame, how to do this legendary 4lb. seat mod, etc. I don't know where to get or know how to build an aluminum exhaust system, there must be multiple sources of this stuff. I have found sources of individual titanium washers nuts and bolts. That stuff seems to be pricey. Before Monoshocks and disk brakes, there were kits available that enables an owner to replace every nut, bolt, washer, and even axles and other parts on any major British, Japanese, Italian, and Spanish trials and motocross bike with Titanium and aluminum alloys. I would like to buy a titanium kit specific to the TL-250, if possible, so I don't have to scrounge around. I recall that the full kit dropped the bikes weight 16 pounds and had detailed step by step instructions. I really am not the greatest mechanic in the world, nor do I have a good facility. I would buy a pre fabricated exhaust system and bolt it on myself. Is Aluminum really available or would I have to go with another kind of alloy? The entire exhaust system would need to be replaced for the most significant weight saving as the entire system is steel. I do know how to change tyres and a rear tube type modern tyre shouldn't be too hard to find. Haven't been able to find where I can buy these items. It's easy to find and buy trick bits for the latest modern bikes. I see lots of examples of aftermarket frames for the TL-250 and nowhere to buy them. People have supposedly made their Ariel 500 thumpers 40 pounds lighter than Sammy Millers GOV132 and are still legal in pre 65 events. How was this done? Like the boy scouts say: "Be prepared". I like to find out what I can before embarking on any changes and mods. Sources as well as ideas are appreciated. Someone here must know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylael Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Check with Bob Ginder at B&J racing www.bjracing.com/ and Sammy Miller www.sammymiller.co.uk/ They should have a few goodies to lighten your wallet. One mod you have not mentioned is removing the frame tubes from beneath the engine and fabbing a thick alloy sumpgaurd with a rubber damper in between the engine and skidplate. Cutting off the rear frame loop, creatively cutting off any extra metal bits on the bike such as the kickstand bracket, fork theft lock if equipped etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Thanks JayLael, I thought that a frame kit would be configured as you had mentioned, with the padded sumpguard as part of the kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Threr is a really nice 50lb weight reduction kit available that makes the Honda almost as light as other bikes! I'm pretty sure it is still available, they call it a, FArt or something, possiblyF4rt! And I understand they have blue teeth somewhere that turns them from big Farts to little Farts, not quite sure how that all works, but they do have lights that flash when they fart, I seen um with me own eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Helium? Or something I ate once in a ****** restaurant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) Being really tight I lighten bikes in the following areas. Wheel spacers and snail cams in alloy, Drill brake arms, gear lever and kickstart (sometimes) Remove all extra brackets on frame, Simplify wiring, Remove seat and side panels, replace with alloy sheet and a foam or rubber pad. Replace steel fuel tank with alloy or plastic, Use alloy bolts on all non-stress parts such as engine covers etc much cheaper than titanium. I think titanium is not cost effective in terms of kg per euro. Alloy exhaust is biggest saving, contact WES to see if they have done one in the past. If you are really keen there is a couple of articles on how to lighten a motocross bike on the eurospares web site (use google). At the end of it all it is an old bike that was heavy in its day, the sections are less challenging so just get out and ride. Edited July 25, 2006 by mattylad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 No matter what frame you use for a TL250 engine, the height of that long stroke, wet sump motor will always create a centre of gravity/ground clearance compromise that handicaps the bike in comparison with others of that vintage. If you yearn for a Honda 4 stroke twinshock that is light and handles well, a far better better starting point is the humble TL125. With suitable engine work (bore and stroke increases), a different front end and rear suspension mods, these can be made into something that is a much better competition mount than something based on the TL250. Attached is a photo of a TL250 (Jeff Eckert, Queensland, Australia) showing an exhaust that lightens the TL250 without spoiling the beauty of the original styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 how about getting someone like Talon to make you some disc brake wheels, modern hubs are only 32 spoke and i dont know if the rims are steel or aluminium on the TL but that would save a chunk of weight and you would have disc brakes as an added bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpatensing Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Why waste time and money trying to lighten it, just use it for what it is and if you want a decent twinshock, buy a late Sherpa or similar. If you want to use a light bike, buy a modern mono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Where did my big long response go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr clean Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Feetupfun: Where can I buy a ready made exhaust setup like that? Is it quiet? Sherpatensing: I hate two strokes, I am glad that finally thumpers are coming onto the market again. I always found it annoying to have to buy a two stroke bike to ride trials. Baldilocks: I want to keep this as a quiet vintage trials thumper, only lighter. So if there are weight savings with different rims, I may consider that route in the future. The rims and spokes are in perfect shape on this bike. Someone out there probably tried to turn one of these into a disk braked mono, I don't think I will be doing that. Mattylad: Thanks for the Eurospares article links. Very interesting that he reduced a bike by 52 pounds to 194 using easily available parts in 1971. Also interesting is that this was done without titanium, except for the handlebars. I also found it interesting that the triple clamps were easily replaced with an item 2 pounds lighter. Our modern bikes have Ergal triple clamps readily available. A great place to reduce the weight on a top heavy bike. "Every pound on top is good as 4 to 5 pounds below" Somewhere out there someone must have a TL-250 aftermarket frame kit, unused, that they want to unload, cheap? If memory serves me correctly: Sammy Millers Ariel HT-5 originally weighed 325 pounds. One year later it was down to 290 pounds. Gradually the weight was reduced to 245 pounds, until the lightweight Bultaco came along. Today people are getting the same 500cc Ariel HT-5 down to 205 pounds and it is still within the pre 65 rules. How? I have ridden Honda TL-250's with extensive lightweight modifications and thumper works bikes and I loved riding them far more than any two stroke. One owner told me the titanium in his bike cost more than the whole bike, OUCH! I am definetly going to do the seat mod, after I figure out how, and newer lighter tires, and a QUIET lightweight exhaust system. The other mods will be step by step, depending on what I learn starting with alloy screws, washers, and bolts on non stress items. Sammy Miller catalog on the way in the mail. How do I contact WES? Can't find a link online yet. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedabike Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) These folks do fasteners, http://www.tastynuts.com/site/frameset.htm (looks like a dodgy site but trust me!!) They may be able to point you in the direction of your local supplier. Edited July 25, 2006 by mikedabike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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