51 replies to this topic

[AtomAnt]

scorpa3, on Sep 14 2006, 10:10 PM, said:

He also says, (in a slightly different context I must add) "Sadly, you do not get anything like a representative view by listening to fanatics beating their own drums"

Yes and his description of a fanatic ! "People who believe that what they do and think is the only possible way of looking at and dealing with a problem" . I think the problem lies with the people who have been doing the job sooo long that they are set in their ways and resist change of any description. I dont advocate change for change's sake but if theres a new idea then give it a chance before saying its "100% unworkable"

[Andy]

scorpa3, on Sep 14 2006, 09:56 PM, said:

Unfortunately, John Dickinson, the editor of T&MX News has written about this subject on page 3 of this weeks issue and it is less than encouraging.

He says " It has recently been muted that the ACU forum now be website based. Great idea for debate but 100% unworkable in practise."

Perhaps he is right, however surely it is better to give it a try than to be faced with yet another cancelled meeting?

I don't buy TMX as I get enough Trials news as it is, but this article has been brought to my attention.

Firstly I'd question why TMX are using these forums as a source of news when all content is the copyright (no matter who posted it) of Trials Central and secondly I'd rise to the challenge of why it was unworkable. Once I've read the TMX article I'll be in a better position to respond

[The artist formerly known as Ishy]

I have often read something from the page 3 story off the TMX site and it sparked an idea for a topic I posted on here, I don't think JD is copying and pasting stories, but Ideas do come from reading the forums.

Many TC readers will also purchase the TMX, is that a bad thing in a sport so small ? obviously news travels the internet faster than a weekly publication and pictures and event reports soon hit the front page.

Both TMX and TC sponsored in some way this years world round at Hawkstone, both are helping the sport one way or another, if JD doesn't think an online forum will work, then prove him wrong! he's been around a time or two, maybe a time or two too many, but I doubt he'll take the huff if you do prove him wrong.

I would hate to see it turn into a us and them type of deal, isn't trials all US!! and them are the one's trying to shut us down.

[Andy]

Don't get me wrong. I've nothing against JD whatsoever. He's a sound bloke and we've had some good (ah wimoweh ah wimoweh!) laughs. What I object to is not crediting your sources. Mario Candellone, TodoTrial, myself and most of the others involved in Trials - if we publish anothers news or photos then we make a point of crediting the source. Gentleman's agreement if you like, but we always respect the work of others. For TMX to take what has been said on here and publish an article about that without credit to the source of the article sucks.

As far as the arguments presented in the article against an online Trials forum go, I can't really comment until I've seen it and then I will

[AtomAnt]

I'm not knocking him either! I always read his column when its to do with trials and very often agree with what he says but this time I think he is has got it completely wrong and said as much. Time and the powers to be in the ACU will be the deciding factors in whether we get the chance to prove him wrong or not.

[andyrothers]

Must admit, TMX page 3 is probably about the only page I don't read on a regular basis...

[Exiled Yorkshireman]

Would a 'trials central' reply to the piece be the way to go. As has been noted on this thread already there are some well thought out points being raised by a broad cross section of the trials community already....which i presume were the type of viewpoints the ACU wanted in the first instance.

If Andy or whoever wanted to put the salient points in an email to TMX i'd gladly offer my support as i think others would too. As a newbie i'm not entirely sure of all the points being raised but could give a 'new to the sport' perspective as others who have been trialing for decades could provide their views

Some healthy intelligent debate in the pages of TMX would also help to raise the profile of the website with its readership.

[pitley]

How can someone say this is unworkable if it aint been tried first?

Edited by pitley, 15 September 2006 - 07:45 PM.

[scorpa3]

It definately is workable.

The only question is whether it would achieve anything positive.

And as I've said before; anythings is better than yet another cancelled meeting at ACU house!

[AtomAnt]

r2wtrials, on Sep 15 2006, 07:55 PM, said:

... just a point, has the T&MX ever mentioned or Acknowledged that TrialsCentral is out there?

It remids me of some years ago, the war between the ACU and the AMCA.... the AMCA were happy to just get on with the riding and cut the bullsh*t but the ACU would try and ban you if you had ridden in an AMCA event!! ... or so it seemed at the time. Thankfully those days have passed but the T&MX attitude of no acknowledgement, but we will get some ideas, seems familier!!

Actually, now you come to mention it, I haven't ever seen any mention of TC in TMX except maybe some photos from TrialsPhotos.com

If you think about it, this site is major competition and getting moreso every week that goes past. You can read info on here straight after the event and then read it a week later in TMX

With Andy being at all the major events this year and feeding info to the site in realtime this is the place to get your trials fix and getting it a week later via TMX is too late IMHO. Also, while I'm at it, I think the TMX publication is tired and needs a revamp.
I am not interested at all in MX so hate wading through it to find snippets of trials stuff hidden all over the place amongst it all.

This site provides quality Editorial/Photos AND Videos via Andy that TMX could never offer so really there is no competition. Give me TC every time

(This was an adversitement for the TC Party )

Getting back onto the thread.. I am waiting with baited breath to see how this will go.. will the ACU be bold and go for it or will it just be fade away never to be mentioned again.? Time will tell !

IMHO

[scorpa3]

It'll be a wasted oportunity if they do!

Even if it is to say "We told you it wouldn't work!"

I really hope this goes ahead, it can do no harm but might just do some good.

[Andy]

AtomAnt, on Sep 15 2006, 10:10 PM, said:

Actually, now you come to mention it, I haven't ever seen any mention of TC in TMX except maybe some photos from TrialsPhotos.com

You won't see mention of Trials Central in TMX because (despite them getting extensive publicity on here), as you correctly point out, I am considered competition.

As for the photo thing, Eric, Jake, Dicko and myself tend to hang out at events in roughly the same places to get the best shots. You may have seen similar photos to ones I've taken, but you certainly won't have seen any of mine.

Quote

If you think about it, this site is major competition and getting more so every week that goes past. You can read info on here straight after the event and then read it a week later in TMX

With Andy being at all the major events this year and feeding info to the site in realtime this is the place to get your trials fix and getting it a week later via TMX is too late IMHO.

This has been true with the World events this year. How long that will last I don't know. It's a lot of work and uses all of my holiday allowance from my real-life job. It's been a blast and I've really enjoyed the experience, but I don't know if I could do it forever - especially the two long-haul ones. They were a weeks holiday apiece which meant I didn't have enough left to attend the full SSDT. Given the choice, I'd rather go to the Scottish.

What you also have to take into account is it's not just me that makes this site. It's all the Clubs who submit news and results. Gordon Imrie has the North-East Centre sewn up and does a great job. If every Centre had a guy like him then you'd get everything.

Quote

Getting back onto the thread.. I am waiting with baited breath to see how this will go.. will the ACU be bold and go for it or will it just be fade away never to be mentioned again.? Time will tell !

I've seen the article in question and will respond on the front page, when I've had time to fully digest and formulate an appropriate response. In the meantime, I've a Brit round to cover this weekend.

[AS iow]

Just got back from Spain today so chance to defened myself in respect of John Collins comments.

First the Ladies British championship is in danger of collapsing due to a lack of support, and the ACU forum had been set at a time when all the main players in this championship were in Spain( as i was) at the European Championship in Repoll.
I have no vested intrest in the Ladies championship myself but belive that as Becky Cook, who is ladies British champion comes from the IOW as i do, then i should give her all the support i can when ever i can.
As i believe that as European champions, the ACU should support Jack Challoner & Alexz Wigg when ever they can.
As regard to my other comments, the people who travel to the European & world championship rounds, see the french Italian & Spanish riders sat outside of their federation trucks, while all the UK riders camp in their tents and vans, hearing storeys ( which maybe untrue ) of the ACU sending Road race academy riders to Spain to train.
For god sake John, don't ever take my comments as being directed at you, we all know that you care and do more than your fair share of work for the benifit of us all, but please be aware that the ACU needs to do somethink to improve its image amoungst its UK trials members.

And finaly regarding comments about what i have ever done for trials etc.
Someone who was very close to me died of cancer some years ago, and since that sad time i, with the help of other members of the IOWMCC have raised over £17000, for our local hospice, this includes last years British indoor youth trial, which probibly cost my firm over £1000 in lost income. So give your bet money to your local hospice, because i don't need it but there are thousands of people out there that do.

Yours in sport
Alan Stay
4 Stag Lane
Newport
IOW
Po3o 5TR
( Cos i wont give my name)


Ps Dont shoot the messinger.

Edited by AS iow, 17 September 2006 - 10:01 PM.

[AtomAnt]

AS iow, on Sep 15 2006, 11:42 PM, said:

.....but please be aware that the ACU needs to do somethink to improve its image amoungst its UK trials members.

This is so true. I come across quite a few people at trials and I haven't heard anyone say something like " Well the ACU is doing a great Job" - All I hear is negative comments and these are reflected in my posts.

It strikes me that the ACU is just completely out of touch .... and lets hope we can get this forum going to try and put that right.

[bikespace]

AtomAnt, on Sep 16 2006, 08:25 AM, said:

AS iow, on Sep 15 2006, 11:42 PM, said:

.....but please be aware that the ACU needs to do somethink to improve its image amoungst its UK trials members.

This is so true. I come across quite a few people at trials and I haven't heard anyone say something like " Well the ACU is doing a great Job" - All I hear is negative comments and these are reflected in my posts.

It strikes me that the ACU is just completely out of touch .... and lets hope we can get this forum going to try and put that right.

I'm presuming that by saying the ACU are out of touch, you're saying that the people representing the ACU are out of touch? The ACU has had a reputation in the past for having some old folks at the helm. With the money they're paying it's unlikely to attract youngsters who are still having to make a living at the same time, so it does tend to be people approaching retirement that get chance to devote their time.
I've never had a complaint about John Collins, and not heard of any either, but even though he puts his head above the parapet (sp) on this forum, he's had a fair few attacks of one kind or another.
I've known other people (who are also doing their level best) to get a few knocks like this and contemplate throwing in the towel.
You can't do what everyone wants all of the time. You need people with broad shoulders to fight off the flak from your "fanatics" and represent the best interests of the majority of the ACU members.
Slagging an organisation off at every opportunity just because it's not doing what a small minority are asking for isn't likely to be too productive.
The more the ACU are slated, the less likely people are going to be to swallow a small increase in license fee to fund these little projects. I really don't believe that the ACU on their current funding scheme can afford to provide race trucks for out top 4 or 5 riders as they travel round the world.
If you want this kind of service you need to pay for it. Why don't you ask people how they would like to fund this? We have in the past, and there is more than a minority who don't want to fund the superstars through their ACU subscription/levies/etc.
You can't keep asking for the world without suggesting realistic methods of producing it - and if your methods are likely to further alienate 40-50-60% of the membership it's not realistic.