95 replies to this topic

[The Addict]

Well said, if the clubs want bigger entries dont base the sections on trying to get marks off the non Novogar riders if they ride, the sections are supposed to be for clubmen

[Andy]

Not that I can input much on the topic, but this is a good debate and exactly what these forums were designed for

[scorpa3]

Betarev3, on Nov 18 2006, 08:03 PM, said:

Well said, if the clubs want bigger entries dont base the sections on trying to get marks off the non Novogar riders if they ride, the sections are supposed to be for clubmen

If you don't mind Justin. I'll use this quote at the next club meeting. This sums it up very well indeed.
Graham Jarvis has won a few Colmores, how could we take marks off Graham and still give the clubmen a chance?

I think we are going to have to forget the top five and hope that they sort themselves out by simply making mistakes.

To quote one British Championship (non Novogar) rider from three years ago "This is a waste of time, I knocked a marker over in that last group and the sections are so easy I'll never get that five back."

[Paioli]

"i'll never get that five back" life can be so hard at times no pots to day then

[Nigel Dabster]

The novogars need to be at this level, ie where Dan Thorpe and Sam Haslam etc are losing no marks or 1/2 max.
This will then mean that hicken and the like will lose 15/20 and then the over 40 championship will take off and there will be a big tke up in that.
I really believe that trials uk is at a turning point where the age of riders is getting older and older and these are the guys with the money which will keep the dealers going and the sport alive. There are some great over 40's (richard Allan hipwell hulme hicken? cowley alderson birkett and loads more) what have they got in terms of a championship?
This should be what the novogar is all about imho.

Betarev3, on Nov 18 2006, 07:41 PM, said:

He'll have to Nigel or he will run out of time, whats your anwser to the sections then? Very good points from Baldilocks I thought, if they are riding out of class as they are they should be dropping zero, bit like a club expert riding the B route, or bit like a club expert riding the B route and the B route made harder to drop marks from him and the rest struggle

What would happen if he was say number 6 and was waiting at the first slippy section the novogars would catch him up and there would be a big holdup and no one would do it. Then this would affect the whole trial, and who would complain when a top rider pushes in, fraught with problems but good idea, just wont work in practice.

My answer to sections is to make sure they are set at the level I say above, give it a couple of years and intervention by the ACU to remove too hard events and people will support the series, I would. A standard of the reeth 3 day wouldn't be far off, and look how well that is supported.

[Baldilocks]

I dont know that he would be able to hang around that long before he was out of time, to finish in time he'll have to ride (he being non novogar superhero) the majority near his alloted number as he can only be 20 mins late and he's excluded anyway.

What seems daft to me is that the good lads often have good numbers which makes the trial even easier for them. Dan Thorpe and Michael Phillipson ( nothing against michael or dan just an example) were in the last 20 or so entries at the travers and generally the sections get better and better as most are in slippy streams. So they ride the sections when they are at their best, and they are too good for the championship, then peoople wonder why they go round clean !

[AtomAnt]

Nigel Dabster, on Nov 19 2006, 09:19 AM, said:

There are some great over 40's (richard Allan hipwell hulme hicken? cowley alderson birkett and loads more) what have they got in terms of a championship?

Not forgetting Dave Clinkard

[scorpa3]

AtomAnt, on Nov 19 2006, 11:24 AM, said:

Nigel Dabster, on Nov 19 2006, 09:19 AM, said:

There are some great over 40's (richard Allan hipwell hulme hicken? cowley alderson birkett and loads more) what have they got in terms of a championship?

Not forgetting Dave Clinkard

And unbelievably... Steve Saunders

[neveready]

really enjoying this one..ive been doing nationals for the past four years and try to do all the dual routed ones possible. some are on the easy side some are really hard, but it is also down to rider number and weather conditions.. ive only had one go at a novogar round, i was riding[ carring the bike] near to joe baker and watched him struggling on quite a few sections.. later on my mate broke his ankle and i have to say i was pleased to be going home early..ive also helped set one out and the clerk of the course was deffinatly setting a few sections to take points off the lads that regularly do world rounds. i agree the rounds nead to be quite tough, but you only need two or three hard sections to sort out the winner. the only single routed trial which is about right is the east yorks 2day..i would also say that the easier route at the jack wood is pleanty tough enough.. a full series of trials about that severe would see rider numbers go up stacks..

[scorpa3]

neveready, on Nov 19 2006, 09:37 PM, said:

really enjoying this one..ive been doing nationals for the past four years and try to do all the dual routed ones possible. some are on the easy side some are really hard, but it is also down to rider number and weather conditions.. ive only had one go at a novogar round, i was riding[ carring the bike] near to joe baker and watched him struggling on quite a few sections.. later on my mate broke his ankle and i have to say i was pleased to be going home early..ive also helped set one out and the clerk of the course was deffinatly setting a few sections to take points off the lads that regularly do world rounds. i agree the rounds nead to be quite tough, but you only need two or three hard sections to sort out the winner. the only single routed trial which is about right is the east yorks 2day..i would also say that the easier route at the jack wood is pleanty tough enough.. a full series of trials about that severe would see rider numbers go up stacks..

I am confident that you will find the Colmore round meets yor criteria next year.

[Timp]

Scorpa 3
On your recommendation I will have a go this next year at the Colemore. I just hope the other rounds will follow what you are aiming at. Somehow I can't see one or two other clubs doing the same.

Might be an idea if those of us who do the Novogars next year report on the trial on here so the ACU get a running update of whether their aims are being met.

Mark T

[scorpa3]

Timp, on Nov 19 2006, 10:26 PM, said:

Scorpa 3
On your recommendation I will have a go this next year at the Colemore. I just hope the other rounds will follow what you are aiming at. Somehow I can't see one or two other clubs doing the same.

Might be an idea if those of us who do the Novogars next year report on the trial on here so the ACU get a running update of whether their aims are being met.

Mark T

Absolutely BRILLIANT idea.

That way there might be some chance of a common standard after a while. Every round with the same level of severity. Riders know what to expect and enter the whole championship. That way we all benefit.

[Nigel Dabster]

Or how about the acu do a simple questionnaire which is sent out with results, sort of

Did you like this trial ?
Was the level right for you ?
what was your finish position? woeuld you enter next year? etc etc???

Oh yes, please send your comments or attend the trials forum in october..........

[Chris]

I personally don't see the need to make any of the novogars easier, I'd prefer them to be a little bit harder but unless it went to a two-route system then this probably couldn't happen.

These are the scores from best eligible rider in each round so far, no expert’s scores.
Wallace 7, Victory 15, Chris Carter 20, Lomax 6, West of England 23, Alan 3, Bootle 13, Mid Wales 2, Travers 7
All under 25 marks lost and five of the rounds won on single figures, to me that’s not too hard. Make it easier and you’d probably lose some of the better eligible riders and to me that would make a mockery of the series.

To me the biggest problem is the word clubman, this got changed a few year's back to national but most people still know it as the clubmans championship, I might be wrong but I'm guessing it was originally called the clubman’s championship as only non professionals i.e clubmen were eligible

Quote

There are some great over 40's (richard Allan hipwell hulme hicken? cowley alderson birkett and loads more) what have they got in terms of a championship?

They've got 2 championships one in the classic and one in the novogar, admittedly there were only one or two riders who genuinely competed in the novogar series. I don't know for sure but I'm fairly sure Hipwell, Hulme, Alderson, Birkett wouldn't do all the rounds however easy they were, they would probably do their local rounds (some of them do anyway) but I can't see them going miles down south, I could be wrong though.

Chris

[Paioli]

just as a matter of intrest how many of those eligible riders have rode the acu expert championship
in the last few years !