mr clean

Searched high and low, no response form B&J racing, etc. etc. Can't find any of the two dozen Sammy Miller TL-250 Frames, (or any of the others reputed to have been made) no aftermarket lightweight exhaust systems etc. No Bling, No Fling , no Wing Ding Ridiculous price quotes to get anything made... $850 US plus shipping for an exhaust???? $5500 US for titanium frame??? $1200 US for titanium axles and swingarm bolt???? If this was a TL-125, Reflex or TLR, tons of stuff available, easy to upgrade Abandoning project.

I thought that you met the nicest people on a Honda? I used to Bling a Japanese girl whose last name was Honda... Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from Oregon. Well at least I don't have to try to make it lighter.... Fantic 200 Where is my therapist? You guys make Trial a hard habit to break!

Is this R2W Trial?

"Body Body, its too much, its too much, my body baby" "Macho Macho Man" These guys look like Trials riders, don't they?

Not a good idea (caution swearing)

These guys are so innovative!

If I were to buy a modeern used two stroke, I would go for the Cota 315 as well because of its proven durability and reliability. Funny some people talk about he stuff from China being rubbish, when used bikes from Beta, Gas Gas, and Sherco have such poor shelf lives. They require frequent and expensive maintenance. Meanwhile the TL-250 just keeps on thumping along, no mechanical headaches.

trials rolling chassis... Above someone selling a Gas Gas Trials bike with engine removed. In the auction he states that a Honda or Jailing motor can be made to fit. Anyone have any info on how to do such a project???

Stag Party! Congrats Ian! I wish you and your lady much love and happiness together, whoever she is! I remember him well, he did an excellent job with his www.trials.co.uk I wish he continued to run it, I liked it a lot better than when he let whoever take it over. Someone post the stag party pics... Well OK, the wedding pics too!

Something like this could be the way to go: Make this available at a reasonable price! Not a chance I would spend that ridiculous kind of money on that sort of thing. Motorcycles prices period have all but gotten way out of hand. Also look at the line up of bikes for North America from Japan today. Powerful crotch rockets, big cruisers, tall expensive MX bikes. Compare to what was available in the 70's and 80's. Just a wee bit out of touch! For a road bike a Honda CB750F or Nighthawk would have been just great. Anything resembling that availble? NO! I know a few people that have bought Triumphs and Guzzis because there was nothing new available on the Japanese showrooms that suited their tastes. When the Japanese took over the bike market, they had nice enduros and road bikes of every size that were easy fun and reliable. Now is the perfect time for other manufacturers to fill a real market gap here. China could be doing it! For prices on new bikes, take off the dollar figure, put on signs like "second mortgage" "arm" "leg" "firstborn" "soul" etc.

Aha! quoted from Sammy Miller: They destroyed the Jigs??? There must be ONE of these out there, somewhere, unused! (Cheap) in a dusty corner of a warehouse taking up space.... Interesting that if this was a TL-125 it would have been very easy to find upgrade parts for the bike, frames , exhausts, engine, and everything else!

My last modern Trials Bike was a GasGas. Then I came across a Fantic 240 (very rare here) Twinshock. It was an excellent bike, but in need of much TLC, and I lack the tool skills and especially facilities to do a proper resoration. Outlaw Dave has the bike now, so its being put to good use! I was very pleased with the bike, and it had much more power, and better quality power than the big bore Gas Gas! I also found that it was more fun to ride than the modern iron. This surprised me. Then I came across an old Honda TL-250, in great condition, not in need of any fixing. What a blast! Definetly less competetive, only because of its weight, but so much more fun!!! So what I see is that I have a bike which brings me more smiles per dollar than anything else I have ever owned. In 1987 I bought a Beta TR-34, the first twin disk tubeless Trials bike. I HATED IT! It was the most unrideable piece of crap that I have ever owned. I was on it every day for 3 months and could not gt used to it. In between the above Fantic 240 and Honda TL250, I found a cheap 89 TR34C. Much better than the 87, but after two rides I got rid of it. Also I see that Monoshocks are high maintenance items, and lots of people have endless trouble with hydraulic disc brakes. I also view liquid cooling on trials bikes as a stupid development. I remember SWM Rotax engines would never have cooling problems, Honda TLM's did. Shut off the SWM and in a minute it was cool to the touch. The Honda TL stays hot for a long time, as does the TLM! The use of Liquid cooling is compensation for inefficient metallurgy and cooling fin design on two strokes. I have had Fantic 240 and 303, no cooling problems on those bikes. My Montesa Cotas, old twinshockers, did not cool so efficiently, Yamaha TY's also did not cool as well as the Fantics. The SWM was very impressive with its ability to stay cool. Ironic that Aprilia went with LC first, on the motor that needed it least! Liquid cooling adds unneccesary weight, complexity and expense to a bike, plus requirement for another environmentally toxic chemical. A far better approach would have been for manufacturers to make their bikes cool efficiently like the SWM and Fantic. For modern bikes discs and monoshock are neccessary for competetive reasons. Liquid cooling is just BS. <> For the fun factor, as I no longer think I am going to become a top flight pro rider, I think I will stay with twinshocks and ride vintage trials instead. Also, if Fantic or good 4 stroke twinshocks could be purchased brand new I would buy one of those before I would buy a modern bike. I don't care too much for the headaches of disc brakes, monoshocks, and liquid cooling. <> Also, way back when, I was getting good at no stop Trials and the stop and hop roll backwards type of riding was starting. I found that in a lot of sections, if you couldn't back up and bounce around you had to either pivot turn or take a 5. I liked trials less because of the change from no stop. I spent a lot of time learning these new techniques which I found more annoying than enjoyable. I noticed some riders that enjoyed the no stop Trials quit riding because they couldn't adapt to the new style. When the transition was going on there wasn't a no stop class. I know that I would have gone much further in trials if there was always a no stop class, and good four stroke bikes were available. I am glad that vintage trials is popular enough to have regular events to go to.

Sammy Miller Frame by <mention of this company is not permitted on Trials Central> Specialties Yet Sammy Miller denies its existence and that they ever made one of these?

Hey guys, Thanks for this great stuff. Someone pointed out to me that Supertrapp exhaust tailpipes ony weigh one pound and can be purchased new for $53.95 US. So for someone that is crappy with a wench, er, wrench. I mean, spammer, er um spanner.... I am thinking of getting one of those and replacing the heavy second tailsection of the pipe. I will need to have a connecting pipe between the super trapp and the primary pipe. I don't know how to bend or build a pipe. Any advice on how to do this, perhaps replace the whole pipe and only use the supertrapp, (Only if this will have a significant weight savings above just replacing the tailpipe section.) Weblinks appreciated, haven't found any good info. 1) Is this a good idea? I've never seen a Supertrapp on a Trials bike. 2) If it is a good idea, how to do it? Thanks again.

I loved the bikes Fantic used to make. Glad to see them back, I hope their thumpers and new products are successful and the company thrives.

I vote Mick Andrews. Steve Colley and Steve Saunders and Lane Leavitt are worthy candidates. I don't know the personalities of some of the other characters to rate them.

Quite frankly I find me old TL-250 to be one the most fun Trials bikes I have ever ridden. I think back that I had more fun in No Stop Twinshock than the modern stuff. Cheaper too! Don't forget to state your reasons why!

WOW! I like it. More info please! Whatever happened to the Majesty-Yamaha Site?

Hi Barry, I emailed BVM and still did not get a response. You work there?

The comments about how Trials riders back then did lots of damage to the sport in North America. How true. I grew up in Central BC, around 500 miles north of Vancouver, and Trials was a lot of fun then. There were active clubs in Prince George and Quesnel. Over 10 events per year with 20 to 30 riders in many events. Then Yamaha stopped bringing in bikes and the local dealer wanted them and the clubs folded. There was a Trials club in Winnipeg. I think it has since folded. It had even hosted some national rounds. In Canada, lots of good Trials riding area, and most people including motorcyclists don't have a clue what Trials is. Trials is such a potentially fun and interesting unique sport. It could be dramatically more popular in North America without the huge crowds and lineups that were feared so long ago. It's always been a long way from this state. While the sport will not die here it is much closer to death than overcrowding. Having established clubs fold and poor turnouts in many events is not a better option. Recently there were National championships for Canada held in Quebec. Nobody from Alberta or either coast showed up. What kind of a National Championship is that when Canadas best riders are far more interested in the USA Championships? Is it any wonder that the FIM wants to find other places to host World rounds than Canada and USA? Better to send the World Rounds to places with growth potential.

I think that it is the same as the TY-175 only a smaller cylinder and carb.

Thanks Big John, I was hoping that it was going to be a kit that could be purchased somewhere. Oh well. If he only made 4 frames, no doubt they were probably not inexpensive! I thought somewhere someone might have a warehouse with 40 such frames they would like to get rid of. It is a very nice looking rig, what is it like to ride?

USA and Canada has definetly done very poor jobs of making the sport of Trials professional and popular here. Are there anti-American feelings that could be affecting this?