ronm

Jimmy- here is a message I posted on the Beta forum a few weeks ago. I just fitted a set of ProTapers to my '04 Rev3, and it is a piece of cake. I have a phobia about handlebar breakage and wanted to go with the strongest available, but I was afraid mounting the large diameter bars would require a new upper triple clamp. Then I found the universal mounting clamp kits that ProTaper (and others) sells. It is a really simple idea. The clamp consists of an upper and lower piece. It is wider than the stock upper handlebar clamp. One half of the lower piece bolts to the original handlebar mount with recessed screws. Then the upper piece bolts to that with the normal 2 screws. The result is about 3/4 of an inch (19mm) higher than stock. What you want to buy is the factory Suzuki bend. This bar mounted in the universal mounting kit will be within a few mm of the stock geometry. When you are looking for bars, check out the ProTaper website and look at the results of (supposedly independent) fatigue tests of various brands. They also have pics of the clamp kits that will make more sense than my description. The whole thing cost me $120.00 US for bars and clamp kit. Here is a link to the ProTaper site with pics of the clamp kit. Pro Taper Clamp Kit Pics

Hi Stu, I had a pesky front tire on my Techno a few years back. I reseated that tire at least 6 times. What I found out in the process is that tubeless tires are slightly smaller diameter at the bead. I can't remember the source, but the info was supposedly from the tire industry. They require a ridge on the rim to keep the bead from slipping to the inside. This doesn't happen as much on the rear since the rim is wider. What I do not understand is why dealers send tubless front tires to customers when they know that a tubeless front setup is fairly rare. You can try grinding out the inside of the bead, but I would get a new tube type tire. Concerning your post a couple of weeks ago about the clutch cover gasket on your Beta- Mine has worked fine since I reseated it a few months back. I was the one who sent you details about the process. Apparently, the difference between what you did and what I did is that you used silicone sealant and I used liquid gasket cement (the kind in the can with the brush in the cap). I did not even use a new gasket- I just cleaned the old one up with spray carb cleaner to remove the oil. I doubt that the case pressure has anything to do with it. I would regularly check the case screws, since they seem to loosen from excessive skid plate slamming ( my normal riding style) I hope this helps.

I just fitted a set of ProTapers to my '04 Rev3, and it is a piece of cake. I have a phobia about handlebar breakage and wanted to go with the strongest available, but I was afraid mounting the large diameter bars would require a new upper triple clamp. Then I found the universal mounting clamp kits that ProTaper (and others) sells. It is a really simple idea. The clamp consists of an upper and lower piece. It is wider than the stock upper handlebar clamp. One half of the lower piece bolts to the original handlebar mount with recessed screws. Then the upper piece bolts to that with the normal 2 screws. The result is about 3/4 of an inch (19mm) higher than stock. What you want to buy is the factory Suzuki bend. This bar mounted in the universal mounting kit will be within a fer mm of the stock geometry. When you are looking for bars, check out the ProTaper website and look at the results of (supposedly independent) fatigue tests of various brands. They also have pics of the clamp kits that will make more sense than my description. The whole thing cost me $120.00 US for bars and clamp kit. BTW, I originally thought the Renthal twinwall bars would be an even stronger approach, but I have seen reports of them breaking. I am not too concerned with bars breaking in a crash. I am scared of having one unexpectedly snap off while riding a drop off, a splatter(happened to me), or at some other moment where the resulting gash wound from the jagged end of the break could leave me bleeding to death in the woods.

I don't have the torque spec handy, but as for the second question- there is a vent screw in the upper radiator tank that is accessible from the front. M6 sockethead with a gasket. Removing it will allow the air to bleed as you are refilling. It makes it easier to get the system full.

The thingy on the end of the air hose that you push onto the do-hickey on the wheel.

I use a modified tire chuck to make the tire fill faster. Standard tire chucks do not flow much air. The trick is to remove the innards from the chuck. Since the part that opens the valve core is now missing, you will have to fill the tire with the valve core removed. I use a strap around the tire to get the bead close to the rim. I then slip on the tire chuck (the rubber seal will usually keep it on the stem) and then open the ball valve I mounted onto the chuck. After the bead seals, loosen the strap and keep on adding air until the bead seats. Then you can shut off the valve, remove the chuck, and have plenty of time to install the valve core while the excess pressure is bleeding. I admit that the donut would be better, and if I could ever remember to buy one, I would. But it generally does not take more than about 10 minutes for the the whole process - including mounting the tire, so it has not been a priority.

Tommi- One of the brightest moments in my trials involvement has to be the day you, Charlie Roberts, and Kelly Duncan came to my house to ride. I think about that day often when I am riding those sections. The best thing about your stay here is that I bet a lot of other people could say the same thing about the time you spent with them. I wish you and your family happiness and success. Best Regards, Ron Milam

I would use a 1/4-28 UNF instead. The M6 screw will have stripped a hole bigger than the recommended tap drill size for either the coarse or fine thread 1/4 inch screws. However, the tap drill for the fine thread is .012 in larger than the 1/4-20. The 1/4 -28 will probably work ok, but I would always be careful to not over tighten it.

Dan, It seems like we checked the peg position, swingarm pivot location, swing arm length, etc and did not find much difference. I think though that all other things being equal, the bike with a lower CG will have a heavier feel to the front wheel. This is because the front wheel has to move higher to get the same weight shift to the rear. Just like when you try to weigh a bike on bathroom scales without blocking up the other tire to the height of the scale. I haven't figured out an easy way to measure this directly. I did play around with a scale last winter. I measured front and rear weights on my '04 Beta and my '00 GasGas. I then raised the front wheel with a concrete block stood on end, and measured the rear wheel weight again. I never took time to work out a free body diagram on it, but from the data, it should be possible to determine the location of the centroid in 2 axes. I bet that the Beta ends up with the center of gravity lower. Since you have all brands there, you could check them all pretty quickly. I guess another method would be to lay the bike on its side on a scale. (block of wood to raise it up a bit and maybe a foot square piece of plywood between the bike and the block incase the cg turned out to be located in a hole).

Stu, You don't have to remove the water pump. It comes off with the case. I had to reposition the gasket on my '04 rev. The biggest pain was that the skid plate rubber interferes with the cover and I had to partially remove the skid plate to get the rubber out. The earlier revs may be a bit different though. I think this was one of the target areas when they lost so much weight in '03. You will need to drain the coolant before doing the job. If you have to remove the skid plate, a 6" C-clamp will make it much easier to put back together.

Actually, This is a copy of my notes from the comparison Dan mentioned: 2004 Bike Weights - Full fuel tanks. Measured at TTC by Ron and Charlie on Bathroom type scale. GasGas Pro 280 - Front 79.5 Rear 79.0 Total 158.5 Beta 270 Front 82.5 Rear 84.0 Total 166.5 The interesting thing is that the Beta has a weight bias toward the rear and the GasGas is evenly distributed. However, when riding, it takes noticeably more effort to raise the Beta's front wheel for obstacles, etc. I haven't taken time to analyze it, but it may have something to do with the vertical center of gravity. Anyway, they both work well. I guess more effort is not quite the way to describe it. Maybe it is that I need to pay more attention to the front end on big stuff. On rolling -rise and fall turns where the front end sometimes comes up when you don't want it to, the Beta sticks better.

Kal, Thanks a lot for publishing the parts manuals. I have also been using them for some time. When I changed back to Beta late last year, I decided to make up a good manual so I would have it when I needed it. I got the parts list from your site. I got a price list from another site- I think Dave Fin Beta. I downloaded Mikuni manuals from Mikuni and Sudco. The price list was in Australian dollars, but you can grab the data and stick it in a spread sheet and apply the appropriate conversion rate. This at least gives you a rough idea of the cost. I got a copy of the wiring diagram, Billy T's carb mods, and a copy of the Beta factory recommended carb mod ( I think also from Dave Fin). I would hate to infringe on anyone's copyrights,etc. and I do not always remember the source. Otherwise I would publish it all somewhere. Anyway, I printed it all and put it in a 3 ring binder for my shop. It is well worth the effort. Thanks to all of you out there that have made the information available.

I always run Dextron III in my GasGas (std edition), but in my Rev3 I run 10w30 conventional motor oil. Ron Commo says that you should not use atf in the rev engines. They look like Techno engines at first glance, but they are in fact very different. I trust what he says. My Beta works really well on the motor oil - no drag, no slip, very smooth release. I have also heard from multiple sources to avoid using synthetics in the gearbox (atf and motor oil) because it can cause adversely affect the clutch facings.

Andy, I just have a minute so I will be brief and answer both of your recent questions. If you are running 5 wt oil, the forks should not be harsh near the bottom if properly adjusted. Your forks adjust thusly: Right side knob- rebound damping. Screw clockwise to increase damping. Left side knob-compression damping. Screw clockwise to increase damping. Spring preload- adjust by varying length of preload spacers ( easy to make from PVC pipe). The seal is in a removable sleeve (as you know) and you should be able to feel if there is excessive friction. Most GasGas owners I know, tighten up the seals before installing by removing the garter spring and shortening it by about 8mm. This is done by finding the joint in the spring and unscrewing it. Cut 8mm off the non-pointed end and screw it back together. This does not apply to your problem, I only mention it for future reference and to demonstate that seal friction is probably not your problem. You could have a bent tube. The 2000 GasGas fork tubes are Titanium Carbo Nitrided (dark gray color). I would never sand these tubes. Just inspect closely for nicks and dress any with a very fine grit stone. If the forks move freely when bouncing the front end (as in hopping), the tube is probably not bent. You might try loosening the axle pinch bolt and the lower fork clamp bolts and bouncing the front end a few times to relieve any binding. Then tighten the fork clamp screws. Then bounce it a couple more times and then tighten the axle pinch bolts. Then try adjusting the compression damping. I always run mine in the stock position. To return to stock- screw the knob all the way out. Then screw it all the way in while counting the turns. Screw it back out half of the number of turns. (Rebound is done the same way). As for the question about the brake disc- yes it is supposed to float. All trials bikes have floating disks. It is a lighter and simpler system than floating the caliper. On street bikes, etc, floating calipers allow for brake alignment and pad wear compensation. On a trials bike in addition to these, the floating disc prevents the disc from pushing the pistons into the caliper everytime the forks tweak. If this happens, you won't have brakes the first grab or two on the lever. Got to go. Good luck Let us know if you don't get it sorted out. BTW- the 2000 TXT 280 is a great bike and is still fully competitive with anything out there at anything below champ or expert class level. One of the guys in our club sold his new GG Pro and bought another standard. In case you have not seen them, there is a link on the home page to some articles I wrote a while back. They cover suspension, brakes, and others.

Congratulations Terry!! I'm sure you will be happy with it. I wish I could be at the Falling Water event, but I have family stuff that weekend. It will be a good chance for you the see what your new Beta's got! -Ron

Aaron, interesting that I remembered the jet sizes and then went spaz on the name of the bike. I fixed it before I lost anymore credibility. Clark, I have thought about sawing the sprocket guard off. Lots of people don't even run them on their bikes. But since it is one piece with the mag cover, I am afraid I imght change my mind and have to buy the whole thing again. As for the popularity gain- There were a lot of Betas in the STRA when I joined in 1996. At that time, most everybody around these parts bought their bikes from B&J Racing. They sold all brands and did (and still do) a good job. Then 2 things happened. Beta went a year too long with the Techno and the TTC started up and got a GasGas franchise. The TTC is such a good place to buy a bike, they quickly became one of the top GasGas dealers in the country. Also '99 was the beginning of Sherco, which came on the heels of the demise of Fantic. RYP has done such a phenomenal job with the Sherco line that they have become the #2 brand in the SE. Also, the Montesa 315 replaced the old fat 314. So the increased popularuty of these brands came at the expense of Beta. (Oh yeah, also somebody hired away the world champ from Beta, and also the US national champ) The Rev3 was eagerly awaited down here, but I don't think I remember seeing but one of them sold in our club. Probably because of the upside down forks. When the 2001 came out, we had a few. Then we picked up a couple of 2002s. There was only one 2003. Now with Ray Peters at the TTC full time, riding a Beta, everyone gets to see it in action. Actually they get to see mine in action, but it is not always the proper kind of action. A problem now is that the TTC sells Beta, but there are not enough bikes in this area currently to justify much of a parts inventory. But Ray is riding most STRA events and he has his own stock of spares that he can help out with in a pinch. We still have a number of Technos also. One interesting thing is that a lot of our members have only been riding trials less than 4 or 5 years. They don't know anything about the days when Beta was a dominant brand in this area. So to answer your question, the brand is on a come back. There is no doubt that they have the best bike. The problem is getting people to try it and understand why it is different.

Greetings All, I posted a message last December about selecting and buying an '04 Beta Rev3 270. I have put a lot of time on it since, and I thought I would post an update. I still absolutely love the bike and I am certain I made the right choice. If you did not read or remember the previous post, I started out on an '87 Beta (9 years old). Then I bought a '96 Techno (1 year old). I competed on the Techno for 4 years. In 2000 I bought a new GasGas 280 for my 14 year old son (bit of a story there). He rode the High School class at the US nationals and the US Youth Nationals on it. After that season, he lost interest in trials. I then had 2 bikes in the basement. A 5 year old Techno and a one year old GasGas. So, I became a GasGas rider. The GasGas was definitely superior to the Techno and allowed me to move up a class. After having the opportunity to ride all of the '03 bikes, I decided I had to buy a new Beta. It was a year before I was able, and in Dec. of '03 I bought a 2004 model 270. Each brand had its strengths, but for me, the Beta had the most relevant mix of strenghts and weaknesses. Some brands of bikes have traits that are definitely different from others. It took a while to adapt to the GasGas. After 3 seasons on it, it took a while to re-adapt to the Beta. People often talk about Betas being front end heavy. I have weighed the front and back ends of Technos, Revs, GasGas Standards, and GasGas Pros. The ratio of front to rear weight is almost identical on all of them. But, I have to agree that Betas do FEEL heavier on the front. If you switch from a Pro to a Rev, you will have to give a little more bar input to get the front end up and to keep it up. This is not necessarily good or bad. It is just different. I have had no problems with the bike. I have done a little crash damage, but considering the severity of the crashes, it is really minimal. In one crash, the bike ended up with the front fender bent straight back toward the number plate. It was bent 90 degrees. It has a cross wise crack just in front of the fork brace, but it did not break off and I have been riding it for 2 months since and the crack has not gotten worse. I cracked my right side rear subframe (airbox support). This is a fairly inexpensive aluminum stamping. I spent a little time getting the jetting sorted out. I replaced the 150 main and 30 pilot with the recommended 145 and 27.5. Flat ground performance was ok. Pulled good off idle and ran ok on top. The problem was that if I approached a hill or tall obstacle at idle and then rolled the throttle on, the midrange was off enough to cause 4 stroking until the rpms built up to 3000 or so. I played around with needle position, needle jets, pilots, and mains. In the end, I raised the slide cutaway (cut the slide) 2mm. I am running a 140 main, 30 pilot, and the needle clip in the highest slot. It pulls cleanly at all rpms regardless of the load. No pinging on 93 octane pump premium. I run full synthetic at 80:1. I notmally ride around 900 ft elevation. I talked with Ron Commo Sr at Beta USA the other day. He told me they have never had to cut a slide. I had similar problems with my Techno and solved it with a leaner needle jet. But for me, what I am running now works very well. I recently adjusted my shock and fork preload for the first time. Stock settings worked well for my 175 lb. On the rear, I have about 3mm of preload from the minimum position. On the front, I have the adjuster screw about 5mm below the top of the fork cap. I tightened up my rebound damping 4 clicks (clockwise - LH side) to compensate. I estimate that I have around 140 hours on it (actual engine running time). I am still running on the original plug. I just replaced the rear brake pads (rode some really muddy events). I am running footpegs with a 7/8 inch rearward offset. This works well for my 6'-2'' frame. If I had to name a flaw, it would be in the chain guard design. Due to the fact that it has to clear the muffler, it is quite open on top. In really muddy events, the rear tire just pours a steady stream of mud on the chain, which in turn packs up under the counter shaft cover. In my area Betas are in the minority, but are coming back. One club member recently put his '04 280 Pro up for sale after getting a test ride on a Beta. The bike weighs 8 lbs more than a Pro. When you are in the parking lot, 8 lbs might feel like a lot. In a section, I don't think it makes a difference. In exchange for the 8 lbs, you get an absolutely SUPERB clutch, great brakes (the rear is almost too strong), tight and precise steering, reasonable gearing, and that beautiful Italian design. In summary, I would say that I am one happy camper!

Hi Terry (Knox?), There are 2 2001 Betas in the STRA. Gary Garrison and Harry Heilemann both have them and as far as they have ever told me, they are extremely happy with them. Both do very well in our Advanced class. Are you looking at a local bike? All I can say is if it is in OK condition, it is a good bike to have. Ron Milam

On the pros that I have ridden, you must start them with NO throttle. If you are in the habit of rolling on the throttle as you kick it, you will have trouble. I hope this helps.

Barry, I believe I was told that the Raga Replica you and Dan weighed was Dale's. If I am not mistaken, his bike is an '03 model. I have heard that he replaced his mid muffler with an '04 aluminum one and maybe did a few other things to lighten it. I could be mistaken, but that would account for the extreme difference in the weights. -Ron

One thing that will make installing and removing the carb easier is to radius the edges of the carb body at the inlet and outlet. The castings are sharp edged and that makes it more difficult to work the boots over the ends. Just use a file, and be careful to clean up any filings afterward. On my 04 Rev3, there is just barely enough space between the airbox and the engine to get the carb in and out. But it is possible. Also a tad of grease or oil makes it slip in easier too.

Hi Bigfoot, The forks are different than GasGas forks. On the Beta, the spring preload adjustment is on the left side and the rebound damping is on the right. It might be as simple as somebody screwed the rebound damping all the way out. For a 170 lb rider (thereabouts) the adjustments should be in the middle of the range. I weigh 175 and have never changed mine from stock, since they seem just about right for me. After that, you may be right about the oil level. -Ron

Hi Aaron, I met your brother Andy at the TTC last weekend. Nice guy. Seems to like Beta as much as you. He and his buddy, whose name I didn't get, were drying out their bikes after a really deep creek crossing. I hope you guys can make it down for the national next month. -Ron Milam STRA President 2004

Experience? Heck, I thought it was ok to make the stuff up.

If your club can benefit from them, I would be honored. -Ron