ronm

Bigfoot, Apparently, I accidentaly omitted the last suspension installment when I sent them to Andy. I will send it to him as soon as I get a chance. Meantime, they are all on the STRA site at the URL given above. Glad they are of interest. -Ron

Hey Doc, Good news is you found the bearings. Bad news is you still need the inner race which is a tubular part. The bolt goes through the middle and the rollers ride on the outside. it must be hardened and very accurate. You probably will not be able to get this part from a bearing house. You will find that if the bearings are bad, these are too.

One thing that you can sometimes run into on older bikes is that they are sometimes fitted with other than stock bits and pieces. On my '96 Techno (which I bought 9 months old and kept 4 years), there were no brass parts in the rear suspension. The swingarm had 2 needle bearings on each side. There were 2 hardened and ground flanged bushings (inner race) on each side. on each side, one went in from the outside and the other went in from the inside. They did meat in the middle. This allowed the swingarm pivot bolt to pull the frame/bushings/engine cases into a solid unit. When I needed to replace the bearings, I got them from a bearing supply house. Needle bearings are available in a variety of configurations. One of the main characteristics is the number of rollers in the unit. A full complement bearing has more rollers and therefore more load carrying capacity. In my experience, and contrary to popular belief, the bearings with a cage (and therefore less rollers) is better for our use. The reason is that there is more space for grease, and loss of grease is what causes failure, not overloading. Depending on the deal you cet with the bearing supplier, the dogbone bearings should be about 5 to 8 dollars US. I don't remember about the swingarm bearings. I once had an '87 Beta TR34. I was getting ready for an event on a Saturday afternoon and discovered all of my dogbone bearings were shot. (only had the bike a couple of weeks. Bought it 9 years old). I have machine tools, so I made bronze bushings and hardened steel sleeves for it. They worked so long that I never got around to putting the right stuff in it. I imagine the guy that bought it had a surprise when he rebuilt it. DMX84, are you going to leave that goofy spaz guy there for ever. He is highly annoying, especially if you have a big monitor and can see 2 or 3 of him at one time. Maybe I am just being sensitive?

If we are going to use physics, we have to use it all the time. Lowering the main jet deeper into the bowl will not affect the pressure differential at the throat because it is the fuel level, not the jet position that determines this. My question had a different motivation. I set up my carb according to the float specs Billy posted (and we all greatly appreciate the advice). At the same time, I also made a couple of other changes (pilot and needle position). The bike runs cleaner now. How much was jetting changes and how much of the down hill improvement was float related, who knows. One thing is certain though, when you lay the bike down (as in fall down), it starves for fuel and cuts off quicker than my GasGas. This is not a good thing if you happen to be in a tricky spot and have to restart. I am wondering if the reduced fuel volume allows the main and pilot jets to suck air sooner. Perhaps extending the main into such a chamber could help keep it submerged. There is another fix for the fuel level problem besides setting the float level lower. I found it on the Davefin Beta website. He says that this mod is used by the Beta factory. It involves a little drilling and plugging of the carb body. Basically, the overflow hole from the float chamber is located forward of the center of the carb by about 16 mm or so. There is another vent hole location that is cast into the body about 10-12 mm rear of this hole. But, this hole location is not drilled. The modification mainly involves drilling this hole and plugging the other one. There are good pics and a good explanation of how to do it. I have not tried it myself, but it looks like the proper fix to me, and I might do it when I feel like taking the carb back off. The article is on the news page of the Davefin site. The url is Davefin_Beta. Just for additional info, I found some Mikuni info on the carb. They say that the maximum mounting angle for the carb is 20 degrees. I haven't checked it with a protractor, but it doesn't look like the Beta mounting is much steeper than that.

Hi Big, It sounds like either you still have a clogged jet or you have an airleak. Be sure you carefully check the intake boot. My TXT intake boot started cracking after just a couple of years. Any air leak whatsoever will cause the symptoms you described.

Does anybody know if the float bowl extender pictured above includes an extension to lower the main jet into the the new little chamber, or does it work strictly by increasing the volume of the bowl?

I was told last year by someone in a position to know, that the four stroke Beta has been ready for a while. It has an engine of Beta design and manufacture, mounted in basically a Rev3 chassis. I guess we will all find out the truth someday, and all of the speculation will be forgotten.

Hi Doc, I think the 360 cc number is for when you can get the forks totally empty, which I suspect you can't do by draining them on the bike. I think it is better and easier to take them off and turn upside down to drain. Some oil will remain in the damping components, and you will need to pump the tube in and out a number of times to get it all out. When you fill it back up, forget about using the specified volume. What you want to do is fill them up to the specified distance from the top of the tube. This spec should be in your manual. I don't remember the number. You will need to pour some in, pump it in and out until the air is displaced, and continue filling. You need to make sure there is no trapped air below the oil level. Otherwise, it will free up later and your fork will be too soft. Be sure you follow the instruction as to whether the number of mm belot the top is with the spring in the tube. After you get them back on, you can pump them up and down a few times and release any excess air if you want. I have never bothered. But if you do, you will do it with the forks extended. Hope this helps.

Sorry to give that impression. I really do not know much about it. That is why I was asking Mr Commo. They have some pretty cool stickers. I think oils are somehow a personnal thing. I thought it was horrible when they quit selling Elf over here. I switched to Belray H1R and have been using it for a couple of years, so I am comfortable with it. But the guys at Beta USA are super knowledgeable about Betas and trials, so if Ron C likes it, that is a good endorsement. I will probably at least give the gear lube a try.

Thanks RonC, Thanks for jumping in. I assume that means you are using Ipone in your team bikes? I should have asked Ray about it. Is the gear lube synthetic or conventional? In the same vein as the first part of my post above about various opinions, there was a thread going around a while back talking about Ipone engine oil being too dirty for trials engines. Have you guys noticed it being any dirtier than others? BTW, the test in Trials Comp. this month sure made the Rev sound like the ideal bike.

One of the more interesting things about trials is the range of opinions on any particular subject. In some circles, in the late 90's ATF was considered a no no. Bad for the clutch, too thin for the gears, etc. But lots of Beta riders used it with no problems. I did not like the fact that it made the clutch in my '96 Beta a little too grabby on the release. But lots of these bikes had clutch drag problems. I tried the Maxima gear oil, but it caused too much drag. A good compromise was the Elf 2 stroke gear lube. It gave a pretty good clutch action. It is no longer available in the states. Then I got a GasGas and 10w30 motor oil was the recommended product. Conventional -not synthetic. There were some reports that synthetics were not good for the clutch plates. After a while the recommendation changed to ATF. I was reluctant to try it because of the Beta experience. But I finally tried it and liked it a lot. Now I have an '04 Rev3 I am using 5w30 conventional in it. It is working fine. I would rather use this than ATF as long as the clutch does not drag. If your clutch is working OK, I would not go back to ATF. An interesting note is that lots if not all car makers use ATF in the manual transmissions of their cars and trucks. I think the reason though is fuel economy since the thinner stuff creates less drag. There you go- another free opinion and worth every penny you paid for it!

Hi Doc, This was not uncommon. Several companies sell aftermarket replacements that are 2 piece machined from solid. They usually are sold each, so yo do not have to buy both if you do not care about them matching.

Jay, I am not familiar with Montesas so I do not know if the clutch side cover is doweled in place or not. It is on many bikes. The dowels are tubes placed in a couple of the screw holes (hollow so the screw passes through). This allows accurate positioning of the cover and prevents exactly what is happening on your bike - except that your case is apparently distorted. If it is doweled, you will not be able to reposition it as suggested unless you remove the dowels. I would take the cover off and thoroughly clean the kickstart shaft and the bore of the case. Then take a permanent marker and coat the bore with black ink. Then reassemble the case and work the kickstarter through a few times. Then remove the cover and look in the bore. The ink should have been worn off in the area of interference. You can then work down this area with some fine emery paper wrapped on a stick, finger. or whatever. The object is to only remove metal where needed. it may take a couple of tries. Once you do this, the JB weld patch can be smoothed down and painted. The repair may last forever if you are lucky.

On the Paolis on your Techno, the adjustment on the right leg is for rebound damping. The adjustment on the left side is for the spring preload. You have to change oil in the left leg to change compression damping. The Beta manual recommended 5 w oil in both sides and that is what I used in my '96 Techno with good results. -Ron

TTC did one with the youth nats last year I believe. Give Dan Brown or Ray Peters a ring or email. I think they are planning another this year.

If the fan starts when you spin it by hand, that pretty much rules out everything but the fan motor. These are series wound brush type motors. What generally happenes is that a wire breaks on the armature , effectively reducing the number of functioning poles. I have fixed them, but on a new bike, you will want to ask for a replacement. It could possibly be low voltage, but I bet not. The voltage is easy to check with a meter. Should be 12 v DC. If there are multiple breaks, the fan can still run but it will run at a reduced speed.

Hey Doc, It would be easier if you said what model bike you have, but in general: Your forks could have gotten stiff because of air build up. Air can leak in past the seals on the rebound stroke and then can't get out. Most bikes have a small bled screw in the top cap. If you find one, loosen it and see if air escapes. Other than that you generally run SAE 5 fork oil. Several manuals recommend Belray. I have used that, Maxima, Spectro, and Honda brands. All work well. You did not mention whether the changes have happened while you owned the bike. It is possible that a prior owner used the wrong grade or put in too much. The proper level is very important. As for the rear, the only way I can think of for the rear to get stiffer is some kind of mechanical binding such as a bent shock, etc. Some shocks are not rebuildable (although any shock can be opened and rebuilt if you are clever and have the equipment). I have not rebuilt a Beta shock yet, so I can't help you there. Paoli has a web site. You might check it out or call your dealer. I Hope this helps.

Michael Moore at Euro Spares has a good design for a tilt top full length twork stand. You could even put drawers in the side to hole tools, etc. Euro Spares

Some folks never seem to figure out the proper way to kickstart a motorcycle. You see them slamming at the lever to sort of get a running start at it, or trying to kick the bike through with the strength of their leg. This makes starting a Beta especially difficult since must of us are less coordinated on our left side. The best way to start the engine is as follows: 1- use the kickstart lever to bring the piston into the compression stroke 2- hoist your body upward using your right leg until your left leg is nearly straight. You can also use the bars and slight pressure on the left if needed, but not enough pressure on the kickstart lever to turn the engine over. 3- drop your weight onto your left foot/kick starter with a down and back pressure 4- If you loose your balance, dab with your right foot and start the process again. I really prefer the left side starter because sometimes if your engine comes uncranked, it is helpful to be able to hold the rear brake while restarting. I guess like most everything else, it is a matter of personal preference, but I really think that people who dislike the left side starter, just don't have the knack for it. This method ( reverse the feet) is also better for other makes as it reduced stress on the starting mechanism.

See my post on the Beta forum. There is a link to RYP on the Trials Central home page. Have fun. -Ron

danman, I had a similar problem a few months back on my GasGas. If you go to the RYP website and follow the links to the tech articles, you will find one for replacing the rim band. This is a really good explanation of the process. What has probably happened is that at some point your tire pressure got low and dirt slipped in past the bead. Then it can get under the rim band since the band depends on air pressure to keep it tight against the rim. It is entirely possible for you to remove your band and clean it and the rim and reuse the old old one. The things are heavy silicone (or something like it) and cost around $30 US. The big thing you need to know is that when you put it back on, use soapy water to help you work it in place. It cannot be done dry. I was worried about using the soapy water until I read the tech article. I think Bill Ibsen wrote it. RYP is doing a great service by making those articles available. They cover everything up to and including complete engine rebuilds. -Ron

Dan, That was a great post and right on the mark. It sounds like there are some similarities between NETA and the STRA. We also cover a broad area. We have been trying to encourage the formation of local clubs as well. In addition to the one Al is starting in the Clarksville Tennessee area, there are also clubs in Hunsville Alabama, and Chattanooga Tennessee. We have an interested group in the Georgia/east Alabama area, and there is some serious talk going on in South Carolina. Of these groups, only the Huntsville club is AMA sanctioned (at least I think they are). Like NETA, the STRA can provide sanctioning (including AMA and insurance), and an organizational backbone. Ideally, each local club should have at least 2 and preferably more event venues. If this gets going the way I would like to see it evolve, each club would host one or more STRA championship series event each year in addition to several other local club events. The local events would still be STRA sanctioned, but would not pay points toward the STRA championship. They would still be fairly high caliber events and would likely draw riders from other local clubs. In addition, It would be great to have a regional series that would consist of a couple of rounds hosted by each of the STRA, FTA, and Trials Inc. Possibly this would utilize the FTA Fun in the Sun, event, The STRA 58K event, and a 2 day event from TI. Such a series would probably draw at least half to two thirds of the national champ class riders and would definitely have the potential to grow into a series with national recognition. Barry Florin of the FTA brought this subject up. They are willing. We still need to toss it around some, but basically we would just need to get a committee together to figure out what to do about awards, etc. Is anybody from TI interested? A group of strong local clubs should really be a priority for us this next year. -Ron Milam STRA president 2002,2003,200?

Olly, In regards to the new Beta compared to the 2000 TXT 270- I rode a '96 Techno for several years before switching to the GasGas. The GasGas is better in many ways than the Techno. But I always had a problem making traction on the GasGas. After I rode the Beta Rev3 last year, I really started thinking about how to make the GasGas more like it. I modified my footpegs by cutting them apart, welding in a steel plate (on edge) between the foot rest part and the pivot part. I was a little worried about welding on the cast stainless steel Hebo pegs that come on the GasGas. But I had no problems whatsoever. I basically moved the footrests rearward about 7/8 of an inch. The result was like getting a new bike. The thing made traction like nothing else. I have nearly 20 hours on the new Beta now. The other day, I rode after a rain shower. Here in Georgia we have a red clay that is super slippery when wet and quickly fills up your tires. I rode some of the same banks and short hill climbs that I regularly rode on the GasGas. I was disappointed to find that the new Beta does not get the traction that my old GasGas does. I put my modified pegs on the Beta and there was a pretty fair improvement, but still not as good as the GasGas in the traction department. After riding a very tricky off camber turn around a tree with about a 6 inch fully exposed angled root in the middle of it, I realized why. The Beta was not as good as the GasGas when riding over the root. The reason is that over the years as the rear spring has weakened on the GasGas, I have resisted the urge to increase the preload. So the rear end on the GasGas is much softer than the Beta. That is what is hurting my traction. BUT, the stiffer rear works much better in other situations such as drop offs, zaps, and splatters. So I think I will leave it alone and see how much it softens up in the next couple of months. Besides the difference can probably be made up by improving my technique. The modified pegs do not seem to adversely affect any other aspect of the bike so I will leave them on. The more time I spend on the bike the more I love it. Now that I have gotten use to it, my confidence in those situations where you feel the need for a chicken dab is much better. Give one a try. You won't be disappointed. Happy New Year, Ron

I Had a great weekend and thought I would pass along a recap. I bought a new bike. That is a pretty rare occurrence for me, and a great deal of thought went into the selection. I thought some of it might be useful to others who are considering a new bike. Since 2001, I have been riding a 2000 GasGas TXT 280, which I inherited from my son. He (we) acquired that bike through a partial sponsorship and then lost interest after one season on the bike. The TXT ( now known as the 'Edition") model was and still is a great bike. I ride in the STRA (southeastern US) region and off the top of my head, I would guess that about 45% of the members ride GasGas. Probably 30% ride Sherco, and the remainder ride Montesa, Beta, and Scorpa. We normally have our annual banquet in January and hold a fun ride the next day- normally at the TTC. For last year's fun ride we arranged to have demo bikes from all the manufacturers. Basically, in one day, I would get to ride brand new bikes of all brands. I had been thinking about a new bike at the end of last year and went to the fun ride thinking that I would ride a new GasGas Pro and if it was really nice, I would buy one. I had spent a little time at the NATC meeting talking with Ron Commo Jr. about the '03 Beta. My first 2 trials bikes were Betas, the last being a '96 Techno. Ron had done a convincing job of talking up the Beta, so I was interested in how it would be. I had ridden an '02 Beta and really did not like it as much as my GasGas, so although I was curious, I did not expect to like it. Summary of the bikes in my humble opinion. 1- GasGas 280 Pro- Very light feeling, as expected. Strong, quick revving engine. Pretty good clutch although pull was heaviest of all the bikes. Nice suspension and quick power would allow the bike to just pop right up smaller steps ( 2-2/2 feet) with no technique at all. Turning was about the same as my older GasGas. 2- Sherco 290- Also very light. Really could not tell much difference to the GG Pro. Clutch was really nice- light pull, smooth predictable engagement. Performance was pretty much the same as the GasGas Pro, including turning. 3- Scorpa - Heavier feeling. Smooth power, but felt noticeably weaker than the GG & Sherco. Nice clutch- better than the GasGas, worse than the Sherco. Turning, braking, etc, about the same as the GasGas and Sherco. 4- Beta 270- Felt heavier than the GasGas and Sherco. Power seemed adequate, but the bike was equipped with a slow throttle tube ( the black one) and the bike was geared lower than the others. First gear on the Pro seemed somewhere between 2nd and 3rd in the Beta. Also the front end seemed heavier. The heavier front end seems to be a Beta trait. The bike did not just get up the same steps. I needed to use proper technique to get there. Hmm I thought, so much for Beta. Then I went to the section that I had been riding to test the turning ability. It was a series of tight turns, followed by a climb that was not really that steep, but was very slippery and littered with rocks. At the crest of the climb was a rock ledge about a foot high. Not bad, but you needed to have some momentum and control to get over it. I had managed to make the turns cleanly on the other bikes about half the time, but never made it up the climb to the top with out coming to a complete wheel spinning stop. First time through on the Beta, to my amazement, I was turning at least a foot and a half inside the line I was riding on the other bikes. This was not even a conscious thing. I just rode into the turn and ended up there. Next came the climb and even more surprising, I just rode all the way to the top and over the ledge. This was totally unexpected. I tried it a few more times with the same result. Bottom line in my opinion was the Beta was not as good on ledges, etc as the GasGas and Sherco, but much better on the approach. For generally tight or slippery stuff, it was the hands down winner. 5- I never got time to ride the 2003 Montesa. There was not a 2003 bike available. I decided that I wanted to buy a Beta. But with the economy down, and the company I work for having a tough year, I did not get to buy one. Now for the rest of the story. Things changed a little, and I started looking for a new bike again. All year I had been thinking Beta. But every one in the club seemed to be buying new Pros. The 2004 Pro is even lighter than last year and has those nice big Marzocchi forks. I started to think GasGas again. So I made a trip to the TTC on Saturday for some test riding. I can't say enough how cool it is to get to test ride a new bike there. Logs- they're there. Hills, rocks, ledges- they're there. Good advice- it is definitely there. Four of us set out for a few hours of riding. Ray Peters, Charlie Roberts, Dan Brown, and myself. We brought along a new 280 Pro (red one just like I would want) and a new 2004 Beta 270. First off we rode the logs in the parking lot. I started out on the Beta and it felt a lot better than the one I rode last year. The gearing is a little higher ( I think just a sprocket change) and I had Ray trade the slow throttle tube for the faster one that I am used to. These changes made the bike seem much quicker, and completely changed the character of the bike for me. Now, it just popped up there, same as the Pro. We traded bikes and I rode the Pro over the logs. Great ability on the logs, but I had a sort of "nervous feeling" on the bike. Of course both of the bikes were straight out of the box and unscratched. Next, we rode over to the turn section I had used for the earlier test rides. I was still on the Pro. I struggled on the first turns, but rode up the climb and over the ledge ok. After several more times, I switched to the Beta. The turns were much easier, and again, I also rode out the top cleanly. After a few more times, I switched back to the Pro. Again, I made the turns, but felt uneasy, like I was on the verge of something bad. Charlie Roberts was watching me and after a while commented that on the Beta, I seemed relaxed and smooth, but on the GasGas, I seemed to be gripping the bike with my legs and generally looking stiff. That was a good description of how I felt. I think it is a combination of riding position and the tall gearing. So I gave the Pro back, and decided to buy the Beta. I spent about six hours on the Beta this weekend, and also rode my old GasGas just for comparison. There are some basic things that I figured out. First- The reason I feel relaxed on the Beta is that it just fits me better. I am 6'-2'' 175 lb and am built top heavy. After riding the Beta for a while, I felt cramped when I went back to my old GasGas. Also, the Beta is geared about the same as my old GasGas but significantly lower than the Pro. Club level trials in the southeastern U.S. have a lot of tight turns, and slippery stuff. On the Pro, a rider is going about half the speed that the bike would want to go with the clutch out. This means that he is dealing with the clutch as well as the turn and throttle, and body position, etc. On the Beta, he will have to slip the clutch in the really slow portions, but not as often as on a Pro. For my build, the layout of the Beta is more conducive to to a loose relaxed riding style. I can drive the bike with my feet instead of my arms. The Beta seems to make traction better than the other bikes. This alone is a huge advantage. The front end on the Beta feels heavier than on the GasGas, especially the Pro. This is not a problem. It takes a little more effort to hop the front wheel, but it is still easier than on my old GasGas. It also takes a litle more thought to keep the front wheel up when doing double steps, etc. But again, this is not a real problem. It is just an adjustment in style. Rear wheel hops are really easy, either rolling or stopped. The Beta clutch has a light pull and the action is really really good. It is sooo smooth both releasing and engaging that you can combine it with the great traction and just flow through the tightest uphill camber turns. It is possible to shift the bike into neutral while stopped with the engine running. As we all know, this should not even be worth mentioning, but most bikes will not. The shifting is nicer compared with the old GasGas and much nicer than on the Pro. I actually like the left side kick start on the Beta. Some people hate it, but like everything in trials, it is a matter of technique. Brakes are super good. The rear disk is considerably larger than on my old GasGas. This is a problem if you get sloppy coming down slippery hills, but a huge help when hopping the front wheel. Before we went out to test ride the bikes, Charlie and I compared the weight of the Beta and Pro. We filled both fuel tanks. The scale was a decent quality bathroom scale. The GasGas was out of the box. The Beta had the light wiring removed. This was around a half pound or less. The results were interesting. GasGas Pro 280 - Front 79.5lbs Rear 79lbs Total 158.5lbs Beta 270 Front 82.5lbs Rear 84lbs Total 166.5lbs ____________ Difference 8 lbs. (neglecting the light wiring) I think both tanks hold around 3 liters. Another thing we did was to hold the 2 bikes side by side with the front wheels against the rear end of a trailer. We compared rake angles, peg position, swingarm position, etc. Interestingly, the Beta (which felt the roomiest) had the pega and swingarm pivot about a half inch closer to the front axle. This might explain the heavier feeling front end. Charlie and I did this years ago with by Techno and his '96 Fantic. You could not find any appreciable differences, but the 2 bikes rode completely differently. I am sure there are some differences, but they are too small to be checked with tape rules and eyeballs. I also got to ride Ray Peter's national bike. It has been ported and has a V-Force reedvalve. I usually did better on my Beta than on his. This is about all I can think to tell you right now. I have the only 2004 Beta in the STRA. There are only 4 or 5 other Rev3s in the club, and a sprinkling of Technos. I can think of a couple of dozen Pro riders, especially in the middle and lower classes who should have given the Beta a try. I think it is a better bike for southeastern terrain. But our first event comes up Jan. 11. That will be the proof. BTW, I think Dan Brown is keeping that red Pro for himself. He has been riding a Pro since 2002, and felt quite comfortable on it. His comments were something like he could ride either one and each has it's strengths. For those of you from other areas, and to give a point of reference to these opinions- Dan Brown and I ride in the STRA Advanced class and usually place around the middle out or 15 to 20 riders. Our Advanced class is roughly equivalent to the national support class lines. Ray did his best to make us feel inadequate by riding the lines on which we were struggling with one hand and a smile. I owe a big thanks to Ray Peters, Charlie Roberts, and of course Dan Brown for helping me find the bike for me.

Here it is. Thanks again to Billy for taking the time. Mikuni Carb Setup By Billy T After receiving my 02 Beta Rev 3 I am very pleased with the bike. I am getting quite a few recommendations on how to set the bike up and what areas to change or set. One particular area is the carb. I have heard many statements regarding the float level and how to set it up. This setting of the