I've just been looking at pictures of the One compared to the RR. It looks like the footpegs on the RR are tilted forward more than the One. I guess this is because experts spend more time on the back wheel than novices but it was a bit of a surprise.
Has anyone else noticed this? Reckon it would make any real difference to feel?
Check out Pat Smages video review of them on you tube. He sums them up pretty well but in short, they do make a difference
You have one guy talking about and two want to be`s chiming in. I have never heard anyone in my club ever mention it. I have ridden about 40 events on my 2016 and it never has. I did miss a shift once this year!
Huh? I’d never heard of it my self until I saw this but for other owners, with 2018/2019 models, saying they have this problem too, it’s a bit worrying when i’m looking to buy a brand new one. I do acknowledge there are tonnes of Evo’s out there and this is only a tiny few people talking about this issue...
So close to buying a new 250 Evo and carrying out the clutch fix and sticking an aftermarket fuel cap on but all this talk of them popping out of gear is really putting me off ?
Yep. Me too. I was pretty much convinced the beta would be the wise choice but you can't overlook something like that.
I'm going to try and test the TRS one and RR back to back and see what I think. I've had a little spin on the One and it is very light and a lot snappier than my knackered old rev. I'd prefer the RR if I'm honest but not if it's too much bike.
Is that just because you like the bling of the RR? I still have a feeling im going to end up on a Beta, damn that gear issue that's come to light. I guess GasGas could be an option too but I did want the durability of a Beta or TRS. Test ride time this weekend I think.
Saying that... the 18’s and 19’s still jumping out of gear is a real concern for me. I’d be gutted if I bought a brand new bike and it started jumping out gear. That’s a pretty big problem in my opinion ?
The bikes in question for me will be standard models, no factory or RR models needed just yet and i’m told by the dealers they would probably hold me back a little for being too snappy. I’ve heard the TRS ONE is a really nice smooth beginner friendly bike but it’s no secret that the Beta Evo is the most popular clubman bike on the market, certainly in the UK anyway. Checking any trials results you’ll always see the Beta’s making up most of the numbers from top to bottom so they are obviously doing something right.
I’m open to all brand new 2t’s but I have a feeling it’s going to be a Beta with the clutch fix and an aftermarket fuel cap, just because I can get a good test ride on one of those and i’ll struggle to test ride a TRS.
As a side note, do the Beta and TRS feel similar in terms of Geometry/riding position? I liked the riding position of the Beta, struggled with the riding position on my Vertigo ?
@al_orange I am in exactly the same predicament. You set your mind on one bike then a common fault pops up like the Beta jumping out of 2nd gear.
I must admit though from my recent experience, you need to get a good ride on them and buy which ever one you like riding. I went for the Vertigo after reading almost every section on every modern bike on here and it turned out the bike didn’t work for me at all and i’ve just sold it. I think the geometry was all wrong for me and I just couldn’t throw the bike around like my old Gasgas. I’d rode a 2018 Beta Evo for a full day just before buying the Vertigo and thinking back, I did really well on that. The dragging clutch really put me off buying one of the day though and I wasn’t on this forum then so hadn’t seen the clutch fix.
Based on what i’ve read and seen, i’m really hoping the TRS works for me, but i’m struggling to get a good ride in one. I can test a new Beta, GasGas, Scorpa and Sherco at Inch Perfect but they arent a TRS dealer. If one of them feels right though, i’ll buy it and deal with what ever issue it’s known for. It seems any trials bike that’s been around for a while is known for having atleast one common issue. Normally followed by a common fix...
@al_orange I’ve just spoke to Steve Saunders (TRS UK distributor) to get the answer to the same question you’re asking. He explained that although the Keihn carb on the RR does make the bike smoother through out the rev range, it does also make it snappier and he thinks it could be a hindrence for a novice/entry level clubman rider. He said the ONE is noticeably softer in the throttle and suggested I get that at novice level, and maybe even put a slow action throttle on, because i’m coming back into the spart after a long time out. I don’t think i’ll need the slow action throttle but could do without it being snappier than normal.
He also said I probably won’t get any benefit out of the other upgrades for a couple of years either, but like you I wasn’t too fussed about that I just dont want the extra bits to hold me back.
Last time reassembling I mounted the triangles with the swingarm sleeves and bolts, but without the swingarm, to line-out the bolts for the swingarm (does that make sense?)
By doing so it makes fitting the swingarm sleeves and bolts a lot less fiddly.
That’s a good shout! I recently stripped mine down and although I didn’t remove the triangles, I did loosen them to make fitting the rocker easier. Trying to fit the swing arm after tightening them was a nightmare. Loosening them back off helped but your method will definitely be used next time
The shocker can actually be removed without removing the rocker on my bike but that’s the 17 Camo with the early geometry.
I was changing my rear wheel and I’ve noticed some play in the rear end which is coming from the bottom shocker bolt, I tried to tighten it up and it turns out the bolt has snapped
That bolt looks really worn where the shocker rides on it too. Was it worn or is that just the photo? Reason I ask, i’ve just replaced all the linkage bearings on mine and still have a tiny bit of movement in there. I never thought to have a good look at that bolt. A job for tonight I think...
That's interesting... Ik know that the dog-bone is different on recent models, but I didn't know that engine characteristics are that different.
@Telecat: do you know what is altered? Different mapping only or changes to exhaust, butterfly and reeds as well. Regarding butterfly: my last Ossa had a 15 degree butterfly, that made throttle response more direct ('more snappy').
I know the Fajardo front pipe is different with an extra curve at the head, as well as the reeds and mapping. @telecat may know more.
Regarding the suspension @telecat, other than it having the newer geometry like the Verticals, what else is different? Are the springs and settings adjusted to stiffen it up? I often hear how they’re stiffer and more suited to modern riding, but i’m intrigued to know how.
@jsp Did you manage to sort this? I recently went to look at a Fajardo Rep that I was looking to buy and the owner had been in a similar situation. He was approx 65kg in weight and and he’d got the bike perfect for him by switching to lighter fork and shock springs, switching the fork oil to something thinner and also using a different fork seal that had less friction on the stroke. He could even use the stock settings this way rather than backing everything off to get it moving.
A cheap and easy way to get an awesome bike working perfectly if you ask me.
Hi @greski, do you know if these settings are for that shock across all bikes or specific to the Sherco? I'm after the same information for my Vertigo.
I had similar experience, great concept, I was really excited but never quite ran right, gave up in the end. back to conventional fuelling no probs since.
Gearbox replaced under warranty.Electronic control box replaced under warranty.Used fuel filter sent in post,if that counts as warranty.Fuel pump I had to diagnose and replace myself with an upgrade from USA ,same fuel pump as a Ktm sxf 250 by the way.Cracked engine mount replaced.Never did solve the leaking crank case seal?Gave up I have to admit in the end.I maybe should have spent a bit more and bought the titanium framed one?
Gutted for you having all that trouble! Was that on a Vertical or one of the earlier ones? That's the first real negative report i've heard on them. What did you replace it with?
Thanks for the info @peterb@gu9cci. I think i'll go for the 300 then if I can come to a deal on it this weekend. Is there any concern with the extra power at the top end on the 300, after mellowing out the bottom end? I guess that bit comes down to rider control, because even a 250 could land you in trouble if you open it up too much right? Cheers
Mine softened itself!The fuel filter split lowering the fuel pressure and weakening the mixture.The fuel pump then gradually lost pressure over a few months again weakening the mixture.The electronic control box corroded and i lost all power again that made it slower!I spent that many nights in the garage the wife thought i was having an affair with someone in there?The owner of the local pub filed a missing report with the police!Good luck with your vertical/vertigo!
there's a nice looking 300 ice hell on eBay at the moment . I'm sure you could make it nice and soft . I've put a low comp head on a beta 290 and it made it very nice to ride
I’m only considering the 300 as it’s a 2018 Vertical at a great price. Tempted.
8 minutes ago, oni nou said:
Make that x2 ....there is a brand new 2017 ice hell 250 for sale at ST.BLAZEYMX.CO.UK £6,200 ......problem solved..... phone them up and buy it immeadiately.
Id rather buy a nearly new Vertical for less than that but my budget doesn’t suit either, hence I was looking for a used Ice Hell
With the lack of 2017 250 Ice Hell and Fajardo reps on the market, i’m now looking at Verticals, mainly a 300 that I can pick up at a good price.
I understand that in general, if you’re any less than a pro, you should stick with the 250’s.
I’m a 26yr old clubman level rider just getting back into trials after a few years out, and wondering what peoples thoughts are on the 250 vs 300? Are the 300’s a real monster to deal with or is there just a load of controllable torque?
Has anybody got experience of softening a 300 vertigo with the slow throttle, fly wheel weight and/or low compression head insert?
Of course, I could just get the WiFiCom decice and modify the maps, has anybody tried that yet? Could that be a solution?
@Nebulous Wow, thanks for response, very helpful and confirmed some of my own thoughts!
I will stick a Wanted Ad up on here and hold out for a 17 Ice Hell 250 like you say. It's certainly my favourite of the bunch within my price range!
Just out of interest, what's the reasoning behind avoiding bikes from further North?
Would certainly appreciate the heads up if you see anything, thank you.
Ps... I also spoke to the seller of the southern machine and thought the exact same thing as you. Very shady sale indeed and the excitement of a potential Vertigo did almost tempt me to go check it out. Missed a star buy with the machine in Newcastle, but I know patience is the key here.
I can put you in touch with a very clean , hardly used April 2017 Ice Hell 250 from near Newcastle , under £3,8k. Lovely bike. But they are out there , if you look carefully and take your time. Put the feelers out - I posted a wanted ad , and the phone didn’t stop ringing!
Once you decide a cut-off point , which for me would be to ignore anything made before Jan 2017 - then the options narrow somewhat. If we also decide to ignore the 2018 crop (which will be £5k +minimum) - then that gives an easy set of options to consider. If your budget can’t extend to a Titanium-R - then the only choice for performance would be the IceHell. It simply is better than the Camo. 300 versions do not command as high a price as 250 versions - due to basic novice/intermediate desirability. All this is definitely sub £4k talk.
Is that Ice Hell still available, or is it the one that came and went off eBay before I got chance to pick up the phone?! Thanks for putting all this info out there. I’ve got 4 - 4.5k to spend on a bike and i’m very keen to pick up a 17 Ice Hell 250.
I still have a feeling im going to end up on a Beta, damn that gear issue that's come to light. I guess GasGas could be an option too but I did want the durability of a Beta or TRS. Test ride time this weekend I think.
2019 RR Vs One
in TRS
Posted
Check out Pat Smages video review of them on you tube. He sums them up pretty well but in short, they do make a difference