ChrisCH

Nope. EV are taking a bigger share of the market globally as time passes. You are wrong. There has been a slow down here in the UK as the subsidies and tax advantages have been reduced. The Chinese market is very much moving to BEV. Some of the car companies that sell big gas guzzler models are kicking back to try to persuade the regulatory authorities to allow the non fossil hydrocarbon options rather than the ban on ICE altogether. I don't really know if this will work or not. What seems most likely to me is the growth of low emission areas in cities and the wealthy that buy these sad manhood substitutes will have an EV for the city and a petrol phallus model for the out of town drive. Whatever. I don't much care when it comes to cars. The #1 issue for me and all of us here is the potential prohibition of ICE motorcycles after '35. If this were to happen at least there is comfort in the fact that the new (EV) trials bikes are every bit as good as the petrol models. Should be a good secondhand market by then as well. The big unknown is if the Chinese manufacturers enter the trials bike market. I have no view on that. The Artic Leopard (sorry - I put "snow" last post - my bad) might be the bridgehead. https://www.arctic-leopard.com/

Yup. There is a big lot of BS around electric as an automotive fuel right now. But you are correct that there are other alternatives to fossil hydrocarbons. For trials bikes I think the issue is neither here nor there - we really do not use enough fuel to have any influence one way or another. E85 is a step in the right direction but (as best I understand it) that requires fuel injection? The Vertigo is - I think - the only non carburated bike at present? Light cars will go electric - the trend is very strong and the air pollution in cities makes it inevitable. Maybe not 100% of all cars but for city use it is going that way for sure. I would buy an electric van if they were not so expensive. For my usage it would be better than the current diesel. I need a van big enough for two trials bikes and they are big money. My wife likes the electric bike very much - the new Factor-e is really really good. Again a bit too expensive right now to buy, but the running costs will be lower with no engine to service. I cannot fault the bike - maybe a few kilos too heavy if you are really trying hard to find fault with it. Road motorcycles is a hard one. The little bikes for ride to work are OK in electric but bigger stuff doesn't cut it. Without the car market going over to synthetic (non fossil) fuel its hard to see where the market for that fuel will come from, so hard to see the economic case for manufacturing it. Assuming humans survive long enough there will come a point where you cannot buy petrol at a service station and it will only be in a (small) can for vintage stuff. I think my TRS will be worn out by then 😁

Back on topic - the question for the US trials market is whether the new Pres will push up the cost of trials bikes to replace other taxes and if so, whether Vertigo is seen as "Chinese" and as such gets the biggest hit in the trade war he is planning? https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/26/politics/trump-income-taxes-tariffs/index.html Most trials bikes are european in origin and might not get hit too hard. Whack job Reagan put a 45% tariff on Japanese bikes as Japan was the boogeyman back then. Bad news for Volvo cars too?

Americans are tired of their children. 😁

We don't have the required engineers anymore 😁

Which ones have you ridden? I found the old EM to be not so good as my TRS, but the new one is on a par or better. It takes a fair while to get used to as they are different for sure. Yes too expensive - hopefully the Chinese will bring the price down though.

Hydrogen will never ever be a fuel for small (less than 40t) vehicles. There are many technological reasons why. It has a role for large vehicles although the German experiment with trains (to which it is suited) saw a return to diesel/electric fairly soon (not sure totally why - see https://hydrogen-central.com/why-germany-first-hydrogen-train-is-partially-switching-back-to-diesel/) Hydrogen was (and still is) a massive lie by the oil & gas companies to pretend they are going green but still burning fossil hydrocarbon. There already is a perfectly good gas if you need it - LPG. Electric is most certainly the future for the light car market. China is the main manufacturing centre for electric cars and electric is 50% of their current domestic sales. China also is the main place of manufacture of PV panels and has a massive growing solar sector. Their government is committed to solar and is moving fast in that direction. China has terrible air pollution and little oil so needs to import oil or domestically produce cheap as chips electric from the sun. There is only one outcome of those variables. This is why the idiot Trump wants to tariff Chinese EV by 100%. The yanks are scared of China overtaking them as world no 1 economy. China will overtake USA soon, probably while the orange idiot is in power. Whatever. We are not bothered by such stuff as we like motorcycles, not cars (or trains). For trials bikes electric is a good fuel. Better in my opinion than liquid hydrocarbon for the majority of riders. For road bikes liquid hyrocarbon is a better choice. Road bike EV are thus far not much cop - too short a range and a bit heavy and clunky. Hard to see how current battery technology works for road going motorbikes. That might change, but for now I am keeping my Suzuki thank you. Road bikes are going Chinese. CF Moto is the brand of the minute (and doing well in the GP). The price advantage is considerable and the build quality good. We are at the turning point. Same place we were with the Japanese bikes in the 80s. However trials is not big in China. All I am aware of is the Tenaci Wong and it is going nowhere much. This industry news could be (I said "could") a shift. It would be great if China started to figure in trials a bit more and such an expansion would be good for the sport IMHO. So, to recap. The future is Chinese (CF Moto?). The future is electric (EM/Yamaha, Gasgas, Honda, OSET, Snow Leopard?)

The future is Chinese. The future is electric.

You might be able to get the bike tested and approved for UK road use. You will need to take it to a test station for type approval rather than an MOT test. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval

If it has lights etc then really it is a "road" bike (like a CRF300L Honda for example) or it was in China. It will need to meet UK emissions levels (Euro 5) and relevent laws, also the lights will need to be UK specification. An enduro bike might be road legal if it meets those requirements, but the chances are the Chinese bike does not. The manufacturer will only fit lights etc to meet UK laws. Competition bikes (trials) generally do not have road lighting, but are still required to meet the new Euro 5 emissions standards. If the bike is sold as "off road" - like a pit bike - then it is for off road use only and they do not need to provide any documentation as you can use it off road on private land where it does not need to comply with any road laws. It sounds like that is what the ebay seller is telling you. If it is new you don't need an MOT for three years.

It is not the import tax that is important - it is whether the bike is road legal or not. If it does not have UK type approval then it might not be suitable for road use. Competition bikes (trials) are exempt from type approval so it is not a black and white issue. If it off ebay and the seller says it is not road legal it probably isn't so DVLA will not register it.

Yeah - the chain line was the source of the noise. I bought a new chain (very cheap on ebay) and the noise increased - my bad. Its great now and the bike is 100% Inch perfect have a nice factor-e with a grand off so I have given in to the OH pressure.... We are there 27th to pick up and have a ride. Really hope your lad enjoys it - what a great xmas pressie (cheaper than the wife's 😁) I am sure you will both be OK with the epure - they take a little while to get used to but are a really good ride.

I am sure you are a better mechanic than me but one thing to look at with these bikes is chain/transmission noise from rear wheel allignment. I fitted a new chain as the transmission was noisy and the thing got worse. It turns out the snail cams are not the same either side and I had not set the back wheel up properly. Took me quite a while to figure it out but once sorted it was great. Enjoy the bikes, we really enjoy ours but the missus is giving me ear ache for a factor-e so might have to relent as it is xmas...

That's interesting. We need more people to go watch the top end stuff.

Yes, my bad spelling. I had the F4 back in the day and it was too fast - had to sell it before I lost my licence. Missus still hasn't forgiven me. I seem to be buying slower and slower bikes as I get older... (or is that wiser?)

KTM are now in self administration in Europe, they hope to get new funding and the news suggests all will be revealed by end Feb. https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/ktm-enters-restructuring/ I wonder if the other brands are in bother? They have a joint venture with CF Moto as well. My local Triumph dealers have just taken over the next door unit and are selling Pierer from these premises. (https://www.destinationmotorcycles.co.uk/) I have been drooling over the Augusta for some time and bought some Gasgas merchandise - its a nice outlet and the new bikes look really nice as well. Shame to see it all go bang.

The problem for OSSA or any other company in the same situation is whether or not they have the machine tools available to make the vehicle. An up to date OSSA with new improved parts is attractive but the investment needed just to make an engine is significant. If you made one it wouldn't sell much outside of the few enthusiasts that are willing to pay more than a modern bike just for nostalgia. Is the brand name worth anything? Hard to say. SAIC bought MG cars (and LDV vans) - possibly to make the "Chinese" element less obvious. The vans have dropped the LDV and are now branded SAIC. On the bike front Chinese brands are now becoming desirable and CF Moto are doing really well in the GP - no cheap rubbish jokes anymore, much as Japanese bikes are respected now but were "cheap junk" in the 1970s. Maybe Tenaci Wong will buy the OSSA brand name? Could work for them. In my view there is room for another electric bike at the correct price. They already have a good frame and cycle parts. China is the go-to place for electric vehicle technology. Sadly about to be hit by some big tarifs as the European and US car giants throw a temper tantrum.

I would imagine the brand name is still for sale. The two guys who set this company up might enter the electric market but it would be odd to try to bring another ICE bike into the market right now. Sadly these small companies like OSSA cannot really survive in the modern world and pretty much all end up as a part of some large group. I would think Gasgas (who are part of PIERER Mobility AG and have KTM and Husky and other brands) probably has the intellectual property of the old OSSA engines.

Thanks Konrad - you are a wonderful source of info. Here's the Yam release on the same matter https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2024/1107/em.html Hopefully some collaboration on the TYE and the new EM range. This is my perfect excuse not to buy the wife the Factor-e just yet 😅

BOSI do a front mudguard replacement with a brace. We had one for a year or so and it was an improvement on the OE. I think other mudguards will also fit the brace if you need to replace again. Worth a look. https://www.johnleemotorcycles.co.uk/product/bosi-front-fender-kit/

Sorry IT talk. W3 world wide web. So your website. Great news on the Dragonfly. One up for sale near me but too much. I like the idea and just on the weight as well. It doesn't have the support in the UK that the EM does.

Overall impression I like the bike and the missus really wants one. She prefers it to the '21 epure. The only downer is the cost. The EM Connect is a good idea but I did not want the power limited in any way. The missus found it useful however. For us as a couple it would work. The new bike is very like my TRS - a bike I enjoy a lot. I quickly forgot it is electric. I didn't think I would want the tickover, but it works. I thought the PRB was a gimmick, but I liked it. I thought the big battery would be heavy, but it was not. The new motor is more powerful and revs higher. The power limit cuts the revs and leaves it gutless. I found myself on the stop all the time on hte Factor-e as I wanted more. For people that want the bike "tamed" with slow throttles and so on the power reduction might be a good thing. The unrestricted epure was just perfect. The new version mode switch lets you go up and down the mapping on the fly - I liked that too. This is a much better bike than the one we have. I would be very happy with either the epure or the Factor-e and would chose the latter as the cost advantage of the epure is not enough. I really enjoyed my ride and did not feel you would need very long to get used to the bike if you ride something like a TRS or Gasgas. I think we will upgrade when there are some ex demo or secondhand bike available. The wife's grin tells me I will not have any choice in the matter.

PRB Option Both bikes had the PRB, regeneration lever. The missus' epure does not have that so it was new for me. Konrad has written a lot about it on his W3. I found it useful. On a decent you could use it instead of a back brake. It took a little while to get used to but I soon found I could sontrol descent speed easily with it. The lever is flimsy and a bit heath robinson but the idea seemed OK. I did not use the on/off button and couldn't see any point in it. You need the progressive action to make any use of the feature. The other aspect of this is it can be used to kill the tickover. This is really handy when you need to stop for a moment or two and don't want to hold the clutch in. You can scratch your nose (other body parts are available) left handed and keep the front brake on then just open the throttle and go. In fact this feature alone makes the option a must have.

Cycle Parts The bike's geometry is different to our '21 model. As soon as I got on the bike I felt at home, it is much more like my TRS. The centre of gravity is further back and very much what I am used to. I really liked it from the get go. The missus small hands would have need a bit of lever adjustment but she got on really well with the Factor-e which had a bit less of a reach than the epure. So we ended up good in the long run. The Tech forks are the same as the TRS and overall the bike just feels like an electric version of my own bike. A bit heavier but not so you would notice. Brakes are superb - again the Braketek like my TRS and just as you would want them. I did a couple of 0.5m drop offs and the bike felt very confident only my fear of braking some plastic and having to pay for it stopped me pushing myself a bit harder. Within a few minutes I was comfortable on the bike and not really thinking about the fuel source. I could alternate between this and the TRS without much need to adapt my riding style at all. We had been testing the bikes in the artificial obstacle park. We stopped for a quick hot dog and a drink. (Very nice BTW). Then went out to the natural terrain. There are some nice streams and features we don't get down south so was looking forward to that. We had a couple of sections that we had done some coaching on earlier in the year so I was keen to ride them as a contrast to the last time I rode them on the TRS. The epure took it in its stride. If I am honest the test was over now - I was having way, way too much fun to really study the bike.

Gearbox. The Factor-e gearbox is similar to my TRS in terms of "feel". It changes easily both at a standstill (selective) or on the move (progressive). It is independent of the mapping. On the green setting the shop had turned off the tickover and it was very easy to find neutral. Perhaps too easy as I hit neutral when changing up on the move. First is quite low - lower than my TRS. Ideal for low speed obstacles if you are a bit rubbish like I am. Second is probably the "go-to" gear of choice. More or less the same as the gear ratio of the epure. You need the clutch a bit more if you need to make a slow speed manoeuvre. Third and fourth were too high for me to really find a use for them in the time we were there and are not gears I use on my TRS either. 4th would be good for travelling between sections on big grounds but not something I do and not something we needed to do on the test ride. The clutch is light and responsive (but so is the one on the wife's '21 epure). Personally I don't much use the gears so hard for me to assess how big a deal this is to have a gearbox on the bike. The price difference is small and I almost certainly would buy the geared bike over the epure. If the price difference was bigger it would be a hard decision. The need for the optional EM Connect (included on the Factor-e as standard) makes the price advantage even less. My Suzuki has a gear indicator. In 50 years of motorcycle riding I have always thought of that as a silly gimmick. However it would have been handy on this bike in my opinion. Given the bike has a "dashboard" and an electric supply it would be possible to show at a glance without the need to static balance and mess about. Might reduce stress and wear on the box as well. After 20 minutes we swapped bikes and my missus rode the Factor-e and I rode the epure. The big grin on her face told me I wasn't going to get another ride on the Factor-e. The epure had a huge amount more power and I felt much happier with that so we did the rest of the two hours on those bikes. I did my best to see what the gears did for bikerpet's clutch dump scenarios and both first and second seemed more or less the same on the small obstacles within my ability. Sorry mate - you will have to wait for a much better rider than me for more feedback. Both bikes easily tacked anything either rider was capable of.