old trials fanatic

Donnington is always a bone of contention. Half of it is in Derbyshire and the other half is in leicestershire. Only joking about Derbyshire but them from Yarkshire would probably argue the point with you about "Gods Country" youve got my vote though

Strewth as the title says "Historic enduro" looks more like something from the TV show endurance than a trial. Isnt it amazing how things change over the years. Good video reminds me of my early days when most of the trials seemed more like "bog diving". Thank goodness those days are long gone. Thanks for the video though Woody

If you outlawed those fork braces, owner would call them mudguard stays, then you would have to ban probably 20% or more of the entry, who lets not forget have already been accepted based on photographic evidence of their bikes being eligable, for the scottish "pre65" ?

Think a more relevant "name" for poeple who advocate valenced rims etc would be MTP ........ MISSED THE POINT

Yes thats it the pivot pegs. The ones you use are very similar to the Talon / Sammy Miller ones. Tried them very nice.

Yes but sadly at that time i didnt have a TiG welder and it blew up at the bikes first trial. Design was right but needed better tools. Eventually she ended up with a more conventional silencer. Very kind of Charlie to post the piccy. It illustrates the comcept of British Twinshocks very well as most of the parts were sourced relatively cheaply and the bike was good enough, shame about the rider LOL, to win me a couple of Clubman Championships.

OK not much help but does anybody make wide pegs that pivot? What i mean is the surface stays horizontal no matter if the bike is going down hill or uphill. Saw some at the EXPO trade exibition earlier this week but they were for enduro and far too bulky for Trials use.

OSSA but they looked "period" enough to me and i had them lying around in the garage.

As previously said in another post you cant have a pivot without a dab in the first place so if as you say it is not cumlative the idea of 1 for a pivot must be irelevant as you have already scored 1 with the dab. It's the first time that i have heard of the US leading the world of trials with the "2" rule. Never knew the US was that influential in Trials. From what i read on here there are probably more people riding week in week out in just one ACU center mever mind those at AMCA events than ride in the whole US. Add in that Europe, it's an island off your east coast btw, is the home of trials and trials bikes so i obviously wrongly assumed that the FIA would be responsible. As for lame brain ideas if it hadnt have been for your last export we wouldnt be in such a financial crisis, forcast to be as bad as the 20's, over here. 120% mortguage no problem. Sub prime ooh yes please. Just seems you guys over there seem to love over complicating everything at every opportunity. Recent postsabout free trials, gate trials whatever. Trials is a simple sport been so for years why fiddle around with it??? This rotation idea is plain dumb. You'll be having your trials decided by lawyers next.

Thats my old girl "Bessie" still brings a lump to my throat. First "Pre65" i ever built. OK she isnt scottish legal but is a good example of what we are aiming at with British Twinshocks. Glad she has gone to a good home Charlie

Yes. If John Collins says so i for one would believe him. He knows more about Bultaco's than the rest of us have forgotten.

Perhaps there is a marketing opportunity here to for once sell something nobody really needs to the US instead of them stuffing us?? How about an L shaped piece of flat steel that can be strapped to the boot so you cant "rotate" ? Could have 6" spikes extended from the bottom so you cant slide your foot for a skiddy dab too. This could then be modified into an "evo" version with a hinge and a protractor so that the observer can see and log down the amount of rotation. You could have variable degrees of rotation for different classes? Even wire it to a potentiometer so it could illuminate different coloured lights on the riders helmet or even play the stars and stripes if the "approved" angle of rotation was exceeded. The possabilities are endless

Why ? whats so special about valenced or steel rims? both are anacronisms only used then because we didnt have the ability to make non valenced and both are over heavy, expensive in the case of the valenced alloy and add nothing but needless expense detering anybody from building and riding an affordable Classic bike. Sorry i just dont follow your logic.

Wales ? surely you mean Derbyshire.

Good for you

hi Charlie didnt know you could but if you go above 35mm then you open it up to Sherco, Gas Gas, Beta whatever forks. Is that really where you wanted to go. Cartridge forks. 8" of fork travel etc? As for Norton sliders you could use them if you wanted but the formula i was looking at would allow you to use forks freely available from motor cycle breakers countrywide for half the cost of a pair of Norton sliders alone which have only been used to legitimise fiddle forks so far. Plus 38mm stiffens the torsional strength of the forks which i feel takes us into a whole new ball park. The crux of my proposals was to try to make British Twinshocks more affordable by eliminating the need to hide modern components making them look sort of period which is where most of the exorbitant cost of pre65 comes from.

Hardly anybody rides rigids round here so didnt really take them into account as there are so few of them. Perhaps i should have? How many of those in the scottish have "original frame with no mods" seen a few exact copies made in T45. "all you'll end up with is new frames new hubs new forks and an engine that resembles something made before 1970.. not pre 65 as i'd want it..." and you think we dont have that now??? Err "and a lot more expensive than it is today a specials builders paradise" sounds like you are describing the current scottish Pre 65 to me. My proposals would allow people to use freely available components and then build a competitive bike without resorting to all the "fiddle" stuff then trying to make out it's something it's not as is currently rife at the scottish. Give you a perfect example of whats wrong with the ridiculous term Pre65. A mate turned up at our last trial on an AJS 37A which is most definately NOT Pre65 so wouldnt be allowed to ride if we all adopted the scottish debacle. But why ? the bikes a rubbish example of why the British bike industry went down the toilet and is no way any advantage over a Pre65 legal James. At least if we got real and adopted British Twinshocks then there would be no question of legality the same was that Cheetahs are also illegal in the Pre65 world but why should they be? theyre in the spirit far more than all the "specials" allowed to enter the scottish event.

In answer to Tricky Dicky who wrote. "Which is the main route then? Surely the hardest route is the main route and the others are deviations? In your trials do you follow the intermediate route then follow the deviations then back to the inter route? As far as I am aware and it has been for as long as I have been riding the main route is always red and blue flags. Some clubs I have ridden at seem to think the middle route is the main route, I am confused how that ever works! How do you lay out a tight corner when you use the same coloured flags? In my experience I get there when the expert route has a deviation onto white or yellow and its just a jumble of flags. I'm not getting at you i'm just wondering what the logic is behind it as its far easier to mark a deviation from red and blue flags than pairs of the same colours." In my mind the main route should be the one with the most riders. We have far more Intermediates and Clubmen than Experts. The logic, my logic anyway, was that the Experts would ride a harder deviation from the main route, white flags, and the Clubmen an easier deviation, yellow flags, seemed simple to me but i also see the sense in trying to encourage uniformity across the country for the riders who ride all over.

Good point i wrongly assumed that nobody would want to ride with leading link forks but i take your point and have amended the post. Again thanks for pointing out my omission.

Dont have a problem just trying to stop people using TY monoshock or Marzocchi forks out of a Fantic. However see your point. Might need to make an exception for Enfield forks on Enfields. Then again if i remember Tony Calvert did win the scottish "Pre65" on a cub fitted, some may say fiddled, with leading axle sliders which may have been from an Enfield. By having a leading axle you can steepen the head angle considerably giving better steering but i take your point.

I've always hated the term Pre65 and welcome the idea of "British Twinshocks" so if you do too what eligability critera would you have? I'll start you off with my ideas. Engine : Obviously must be based on crankcases, barrels and heads as produced by the British Motor Cycle Industry prior to 1970. Copies allowed but must comform at least in exterior appearience to the original item. Internals: free. Ignition system: free. Carburettor: free but no fuel injection. Clutch must be cable operated. Gearbox free. Frame : Must obviously be twin shock and made from steel. Shock position free but shocks minimum 340mm max 360mm. Wheelbase without rider to be minimum 50". Ground clearence without rider to be maximum 14" no minimum. Seat height without rider minimum 28" no maximum. Mudguards free but must provide adequate cover to the tyres. Chainguards must be fitted but material free. Petrol tamk material free but must be mounted above the engine and have a minimum capacity of 5 ltrs. Oil tanks free. Seat optional. Forks : Telescopic : Maximum stantion diameter 35mm. No leading axles the front wheel spindle must be below and in line with the slider. Otherwise any fork legs allowed. Yokes free. Leading link forks also acceptable of any make. Brakes : Drum brakes only cable operated front rear cable or rod operated no hydraulics otherwise free. Tyres : Must be in compliance with ACU handbook. There you go at least something to start us off. Perhaps we might even get the ACU to adopt if we ever get concencus. Be interested in your thoughts.

Thank Christ we get too many US lame brain ideas imported over here. I blame Timothy Leary.