Week 143 - What About Us Spectators?

[the addict]

What about Kenny the Rooster??????

[anyoldiron]

It amazes me that in todays age of health and safety spectators are actually allowed within spitting distance of riders in a trial.I am suprised no spectator has got seriously hurt/killed from an out of control bike.If one did I imagine there would be serious consequences for the future of viewing the sport.Not enabling riders to constantly check the sections seems to be increasing the risk hugely.Why the rule?Is it to save time?Whose time?Whats the rush.I suppose now there will be inspected trials and not inspected trials.How about aircooled/mono/no stop/no inspection trials anyone?

[greeves]

There is much debate in Spain about the rules of trial and nearly all pilots agree that something should change because the trial in our country is slowly but surely dying.

Year after year trials bikes sales are falling as well as the number of entries; in our National Championship the number of entries is really pathetic.

Some blame mainly to the difficulty to find places where to practice legally, also to the price of the licenses in this country; of around 300 Euros per year (275 Pounds).

The enormous difficulty of the sections and the fact that the modern trials bikes can only be used for competition are also causes that in my point of view are leading the trial to a dead end.

What is the future of trials? A seven meters double rock steps climb and a 9 meter jump down to the end of the section riding a 12,000 Pound super specialized bike that can only be used for that purpose?

If this is it; don

[big john]

I agree with the points Greeves has made on here about the downturn in trials, not just in Spain but in many other countries also.

There is a need to make trials accessable to more people, to have FUN! I personally think that a return to Non-Stop is the way forward for the right reasons, not simply because it was the traditional method used when trial sport was created. Trials is becoming too elitist and it will eventually fail and in not too many years! That is if no-one does something about it.

As for the factories, well let's face it, if they don't sell bikes there will be no top riders either, they won't get paid to ride. The top riders need the lesser riders to buy bikes and lots of them, otherwise they will all become redundant!

In Scotland we have been openly criticised for using ACU rule TSR22B (No-Stop) rules for several years now, we are just a small country, but it works well for us. I'm not talking about the Scottish Six Days Trial here, I mean national and club trials. Clubs are and always will be the life blood of our sport. But... they constantly need to ask the question ...are our trials too hard?...are riders enjoying what we lay on for them? In Scotland we now have up to four routes to cater for a variety of rider competencies (Red; Blue; Green and Yellow) it's been our first year at this and with few problems, the riders seem to have enjoyed the changes without changes to the rules and next year we have a new championship class, the Sportsman Championship.

There are extremely few riders in Scotland, probably 4, that can actually ride under stop-permitted rules competently, the rest cannot, and believe me, I have seen them all in action. In short clubs don't wish to run trials for four people.

" I WOULD RATHER SEE AN EVENT WITH 70 OR 80 COMPETITORS TAKING PART, THAN AN ELITIST TRIAL FOR 4 PEOPLE" (Big John, 2009)

Edited November 18, 2009 by Big John

[chewy]

Leave them alone long enough and they 'll do us all a favour by dissapearing up thier own a**s

[ishy]

There is much debate in Spain about the rules of trial and nearly all pilots agree that something should change because the trial in our country is slowly but surely dying.

Year after year trials bikes sales are falling as well as the number of entries; in our National Championship the number of entries is really pathetic.

I agree with Greeves, I have been going on for a long time how I thought the few at the top were making the calls and it had nothing to do with the sport as a whole but what was best for them.

I also came to the same conclusion has Chewy, at the rate they are going it won't be a problem, so let em get on with it.

[bilc0]

I think it a little unfair to blame the top rider's on soley destroying Trials,The FIM and Teams could of overruled the rider's at anytime,they chose not to,so that would make's the FIM/Teams as guilty as the riders if not more,It was only acouple of weeks ago when the FIM tested the Non Stop System with some of the Top rider's,those Top rider's said what a wonderfull idea Non Stop was for WTC,then when it come to the crunch the FIM decided to keep the rule to stop,so why have they changed there mind again,who's pressured them to change there mind's again.

By the sounds of things Spain has afew other issues like paying

Edited November 18, 2009 by bilc0

[nigel dabster]

We are talking about many things all at once and jumbling all the ideas up and also solutions.

The French and Italian federations stopped the no stop at WTC FIM level not english or spanish riders. If wtc were no stop would it sell one more bike? Should no stop be compulsory for everyone?

If there are problems in selling bikes why not make cheaper ones a la Xispa and excess sherco?

Are new riders coming into the sport if not why not?

Seperate the problems and lets come up with senisble solutions, thats the best way surely?

[ishy]

I think it's the constant changing of rules the world championship run under that causes the problems. then the world level riders push the case they need to run under the same rules at home to be competitive with other world riders, a fair enough reason to change if the numbers riding at that level were a lot higher, but it's asking 99% of riders in the sport to change when they are quite happy doing just what they are doing now.

Extra lines and classes keep getting added trying to please riders of varying ability it's now just got just plain complicated trying to keep track of who goes where.

If the sport was on a better footing in the years of one line for all, the COC set the standard depending on type of event club, center, national, world, I think an hard line and easy line is enough, it used to make my day to drop one less dab than a top rider, even if it was just one section and the bugger beat me by 100 + at the end of the day.

[big john]

Well here is an observation, in the 1970's when more trials bikes were sold than at any time previous or since, the rules were effectively non-stop and the rules remained static for a number of years!

Interesting......

Big John

[timp]

It is a shock to me that the licence in spain is

[old trials fanatic]

Personaly i dont really give a monkeys what happens at WTC as it has no relevance whatsoever to the Clubmen who are the life blood of the sport.

Greeves makes as usual some very valid and considered points as does BJ.

I know it was back in the days when the world was in black and white but i do remember there actually was a difference between the severity of a Trial depending on if it was a Club Trial, Restricted to Centre, Open to Centre or National event. Stayed pretty much the same when Clubman route was introduced and seemed to work well for a few years. Basically the attitude was if the local Trials Gods entered then they had a ride for fun and the entry basically felt if those "Gods" thought the Trial too easy then they should have gone to ride at a higher level event.

Then the monkeys on sticks, the pogo merchants, arrived around the same time as the TY and Fantic monos and within a year it was hard to tell the difference between a Club Trial and an Open to Centre event.

Now theres bu66er all difference between events. Even some of the local superstars cant be dragged kicking and screaming out of Centre anymore.

Why arent people coming into Trials ??? Apart from the recession i feel it's because the only time the great unwashed see what perports to be a Trial it's that load of old cobblers the "Arena Trial" which is about as relevant to Trials riding as some wunderkindt performing a tripple loop on a moto crosser has to real moto cross. The outcome is it is so far removed from what somebody, who otherwise might want to have a go, would ever be capable of they dont even consider it.

The only thriving part of the sport at the moment IMHO seems to be Pre65 and Twinshock events which have healthy entries to the point where the ACU are desperately trying to limit the number of events and the "modern" clubs complain vociferously if we the Classic Clubs ever let somebody on a modern bike ride at our event on a "FUN" remember that word no award basis. We have to now refuse them. I have pointed out to two local Clubs they would be better asking why those riders wanted to ride at our event on a fun basis and not at their event that was supposedly set out to cater for them? More a case of set up to benefit some local "trick cycalist" by making up the numbers.

Let the WTC go to hell in a handcart they have never benifited the sport so who cares what they do?

I for one dont

[slapshot 3]

Personaly i dont really give a monkeys what happens at WTC as it has no relevance whatsoever to the Clubmen who are the life blood of the sport.

Crux is though mate, if you want a trials bike these days thats less that a couple of years old it's design, availability and price are directly impacted by the WTC, thats what the bikes are designed for. If you don't choose to have a modern bike that's your choice but remember EVERY bike on the markets for the last 50 years, (right back to the mods Sammy made to GOV 132 to ensure it was competitive) has been designed as a direct impact of the WTC/European Championship. Bultaco wouldn't have spend megabucks improving every model they built to win the WTC otherwise we'd still be buying Model 10's off the shelf.

Greeves makes as usual some very valid and considered points as does BJ.

Course they do, it's the same perspective as many of us, including you, have been shouting about for years. What is interesting ae the points Javier makes about the sport in Spain, that is the confirmation of what many of us suspected.

I know it was back in the days when the world was in black and white but i do remember there actually was a difference between the severity of a Trial depending on if it was a Club Trial, Restricted to Centre, Open to Centre or National event. Stayed pretty much the same when Clubman route was introduced and seemed to work well for a few years. Basically the attitude was if the local Trials Gods entered then they had a ride for fun and the entry basically felt if those "Gods" thought the Trial too easy then they should have gone to ride at a higher level event.

Then the monkeys on sticks, the pogo merchants, arrived around the same time as the TY and Fantic monos and within a year it was hard to tell the difference between a Club Trial and an Open to Centre event.

Now theres bu66er all difference between events. Even some of the local superstars cant be dragged kicking and screaming out of Centre anymore.

Why arent people coming into Trials ??? Apart from the recession i feel it's because the only time the great unwashed see what perports to be a Trial it's that load of old cobblers the "Arena Trial" which is about as relevant to Trials riding as some wunderkindt performing a tripple loop on a moto crosser has to real moto cross. The outcome is it is so far removed from what somebody, who otherwise might want to have a go, would ever be capable of they dont even consider it.

The only thriving part of the sport at the moment IMHO seems to be Pre65 and Twinshock events which have healthy entries to the point where the ACU are desperately trying to limit the number of events and the "modern" clubs complain vociferously if we the Classic Clubs ever let somebody on a modern bike ride at our event on a "FUN" remember that word no award basis. We have to now refuse them. I have pointed out to two local Clubs they would be better asking why those riders wanted to ride at our event on a fun basis and not at their event that was supposedly set out to cater for them? More a case of set up to benefit some local "trick cycalist" by making up the numbers.

Let the WTC go to hell in a handcart they have never benifited the sport so who cares what they do?

I for one dont

I don't disagree with you Paul but if we all bury our heads in the sand and only worry about our own wee bit of the sport then inevitably the whole sodding thing falls apart, my learned ( ) friend in Inverness has said on ocasion, we are the guardians of the sport it's up to us to hand it on to the next generation in good condition.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Slapshot 3

[itsafive]

I only recently got back into trials (stopped riding when still a schoolboy) and when I go to trial what I want is sections I can have a fair bash at. A few fives and a bunch of 3s suits me at this stage - I'll improve (I hope) with time. What I don't want is sections I really have little chance of getting through.

When I took my wife to the indoor at Sheffield she just looked at me in horror and said 'You'll never be able to do that!" (Dead right of course)- How many potential riders think that for themselves. If I hadn't seen trials first hand I would have joined them, watching in awe but never thinking about standing on the pegs of a trials iron and riding through the start gate!

For me what is needed is to present trials in a more positive light - ie one where potential riders can see themselves having a go. Bring back 'kick-start'!!! Match that to clubs where I can go along for a look prior to buying a bike and think 'I might be able to do that!' Perhaps then we will see a healthier sport.

[old trials fanatic]

I only recently got back into trials (stopped riding when still a schoolboy) and when I go to trial what I want is sections I can have a fair bash at. A few fives and a bunch of 3s suits me at this stage - I'll improve (I hope) with time. What I don't want is sections I really have little chance of getting through.

When I took my wife to the indoor at Sheffield she just looked at me in horror and said 'You'll never be able to do that!" (Dead right of course)- How many potential riders think that for themselves. If I hadn't seen trials first hand I would have joined them, watching in awe but never thinking about standing on the pegs of a trials iron and riding through the start gate!

For me what is needed is to present trials in a more positive light - ie one where potential riders can see themselves having a go. Bring back 'kick-start'!!! Match that to clubs where I can go along for a look prior to buying a bike and think 'I might be able to do that!' Perhaps then we will see a healthier sport.

Dont know about Kickstart especially in the later years. Personally i think that was possibly the beginning of the problems that have resulted in what this thread is about?

Sounds to me like you need to enter, or at least come along to, a Pre65 or Twinshock event. A proper one not one that a club has taged on a class for pre65 and twinshocks just to bolster the funds because they are struggling for entries because they are not giving the silent majority of riders what they want but one that puts on a Trial with proper sections for riders who need to go to work on Monday who buy and maintain their own bikes and dont rely on the bank of Mummy & Daddy or a sponsor. Even the riders on "modern" bikes would enjoy them if only they had the chance.

Non Stop is a great leveler of machine ability and would have been the way "back to the future" not stand in a taped off area and ride to the co drivers, sorry minders, instructions over the radio like a rally driver which is what will become of the WTC.

BTW Hiya Slapper hope things are well with you and your family.