woody Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Like many I don't care what they do with WTC and whatever it is I don't think it will affect new entrants into the sport - how many non- trials people actually watch indoor or outdoor WTC coverage on Eurosport or other minority channel anyway. They may catch it by accident but looking through the program menu and actually choosing to watch it? - doubtful - and doubtful they'd even know what it was if they saw it listed. Still difficult to see what is wrong with trials in the UK at anything below BTC level. Many modern nationals are full, both those that run under stop or no-stop although the split of riders that ride hard/easy route is 20/80 on average which says something (more about the average age of riders) Many classic trials have fully or over-subscribed entries. As far as attracting new riders, this is no longer the 70s and things are different. Back then, the family structure was different, more stable. The whole family would go out to a trial and little Johnny would get interested because dad did it. Or the family took little Johhny's friends with them and they became interested too. These days, family life has disintegrated, family members go their own seperate way, they don't travel together, broken up families are much more common so the kids may not get involved like they used to. Add to that the fact that there are far more attractions available to kids these days than there were back then. One route trials are a thing of the past. SSDT get away with it because a) they have the terrain and b.) it is an international event and only attracts riders of a certain standard. Novices and clubmen of low to average ability won't complete it. Imagine one day of the 6 day was a local centre trial. How many entries would they get and how many wouldn't complete it. Put a second route on and it opens the trial up to more riders. Take a normal classic club trial. The sections are nowhere near as hard as the sections back in the late 70s and 80s would have been for a centre trial and they were one route then. On the classic A route, you may have a few people clean or on 1 or 2 as a total score. On the B route you will have some riders over 100 - How can you run a single route. The trials that work in the UK are well supported, those that don't are not. Last year Richard Allen won the Vic Brittain clubman route on 3 marks with a pretty stunning ride. There were riders on over 100 on the same route. Later in the year he lost over 70 marks in the over 40 class at one of the Novogar rounds..... what chance have the riders who lost up to and over 100 in the Vic Brittain got at an event like that for OVER 40 RIDERS when a rider of his ability loses over 70. Let them do what they like to WTC and even BTC. Not many people contest the main classes but if there are enough in total through other support classes and it is what those riders want, and there are clubs willing to put the events on let it continue as it is now. However, the performance of riders in those series don't sell bikes. What sells bikes is Joe clubman up and down the country continuing to participate week in week out and enjoying themselves. Impose one set of set of rules that people don't like, whichever they may be and you risk losing those riders from the sport - that does affect sales. Leave club and national level as it is, let clubs run the rules they think best for their events and the support they receive from riders will tell them whether they have got it right or wrong. Riders can choose whether they want to support the stop or no-stop trials or contest both. It's B*****ks to say it's hard or confusing to adapt - read the regs and ride to the rules. Trials riders are supposed to be versatile. Don't let whatever the solution the FIM think fit to impose on WTC affect our domestic series outside of BTC. Edited November 19, 2009 by Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Well said Woody. Was thinking last night, couldnt sleep it's an age thing, most if not all of the "popular" sports i.e. golf, football, tennis, rugby, crickey, track & field etc are all, at whatever level, identifyably the same apart from the level of skill as the sport played by joe public week in week out. The lads kicking a ball between the jumpers on the park are doing basically the same thing as Wayne Rooney, whoever he is, at Wembly. Even Tiger Woods apart from the skill level is doing what Fred Bloggs does, but doesnt seem to loose anywhere as many balls, down the local pitch & put. All these sports are massively popular worldwide. Doubt if Trials ever would be but there are surely lessons to be learnt here. As said by Woody et al it's not the superstars that support the manufacturers by buying their product but the grass level of the sport. Loose the connection between what the top performers are doing and the grass roots participant and you end up with the farce that is WTC Trials and a dieing sport. Trouble is the people in charge, as in so many walks of life nowadays, wont listen to the masses and just do what suits them and lines their pockets best. R.I.P. WTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Some very interesting opinions here. Ok, let Edited November 19, 2009 by Greeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubby Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Having been an average Club rider for a fair few years now what I look to the WTC for is the latest gear they're wearing, what the latest bikes are like, nice helmet designs etc. Rarely actually who is riding well or not well, when it comes to riding for myself I re-adjust my focus to the events I ride. This year this has been Local Centre Champioship, Reeth Three Day, Manx Two Day, Lakes Two Day, and various other trials locally. The bigger events have been run under nostop rules and supported with full entries, even during the tough times, and those local events that have been run under stop allowed have mostly been ridable non-stop if you prefer, or with minimal messing around. So the WTC is an advert for the sport in a way, just like the premier league is for football, but when it comes to sunday morning and spending your own dosh your sights are going to focus on what you know is achieveable, regardless of what is happening somewhere else in the world. Not sure if this adds anything but there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 It is a shock to me that the licence in spain is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 27 and a half years worth of ACU standard Trials Licences there.If i was a Spanish Trials rider i would be very upset by this,whatever Federation is demanding this amount of money is robbing the Spanish Trials Industry big time. Conversly we are not paying enough? Perhaps if the fee were greater the acu could spend time and effort getting the views of what people want or how to get more involved in our sport, set up practice areas set aside land for events and secure planning permission to ensure our sport has a future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc1 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Remember AMCA trials - no licence required. So five or more clubs in the SE went that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Conversly we are not paying enough? Perhaps if the fee were greater the acu could spend time and effort getting the views of what people want or how to get more involved in our sport, set up practice areas set aside land for events and secure planning permission to ensure our sport has a future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) Sorry but I did not wanted to change the theme about this "Week 143" post when I mentioned the prize of the Spanish licences, it was just a comment about the problems we have in the developing of my opinion. It goes about Trials Spectators, and resuming my opinion; modern trials rules makes trials boaring for spectators. Sorry about that. Edited November 20, 2009 by Greeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Just a matter of interest we Scottish riders pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Just a matter of interest we Scottish riders pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) Just for clarity, it's actually Edited November 20, 2009 by Old trials fanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Why not have a 'No stop British Trials Championship' and a 'Stop allowed British Trials Championship'. This is the only cure of course,we could also have WTC'S like this,we all know you don't need all the big lorries and bit's n pieces they currently haul about,so setting up a Non Stop WTC series would'nt be that costly as you could go back to the more natural location's,the rider's entry fee's would pay for the venue just like any other Trial.This could quite easily happen,we have the right people in Trials World twiddling there thumbs with the Experiance,Passion and Contact's around the globe to make a Non Stop WTC happen. This is why i don't argue about rules any longer,I know we have people out there that can change thing's but they don't they just sit there and say alot and do nothing. I certainly would'nt wait for the FIM to make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Not too many supporters of rule changes then or even current format. It is good to see that plenty of commited trials folk are interested in the demise of trials as we know it (JIM) Clearly the circus that currently tours the world is so far removed from real trials for ordinary folk that many of us are not surprised that this doesn't generate bigger sales figures. Every time I see a beginner or a new face at local trials I make a point of having a chat and every single one without exeption find even the easy route is far too hard for them. This isn't a new thing I remember 40 years ago feeling the same but at least we could say to ourselves it's the same for everybody or compare your (albeit sad) results on the same sections as the top guys and actually try to follow thier lines or techniques. That was then and this is now. If I was a manufacturer and wanting to promote sales I would be seriously considering other ways to spent my sales budget; perhaps by sending my top riders to have training days with folk who had bought my particular brand. Perhaps I would send my riders to event like Scottish, Scott, Verdon, Aveyron, Cruise, there fortunatly are still plenty of classic format trials i.e single lap/multi day something for everybody events in the world. Perhaps I would contact clubs and send my riders to some of thier local events to make human contact with ordinary trials people. Perhaps it's just a matter of getting inside the heads of potential punters and they feel that WTC stuff is inspirational. If promoters & top riders want to make money from circus acts it could still be written into thier contracts to allow them some time to go and do these shows,development would continue bikes will get easier to ride yet still entry level will be too hard. I 'm not inspired or impressed particularly when I know that a pretty big proportion (anybody know?..I guesse at least c.10%as a manufacturer of footrest I Know that if I want my products distributed the price I get is quadrupled by time it gets to punter in the shop)) of the money I fork over for new bike is spent on this. I've said it before on these forums that I feel sorry for youngsters coming into trials today when comparing thier experience to what was on offer in the the heyday of trials. Regards Licence fees etc. any development monies spent by our govorning bodies would be better spent representing our interests regarding land access road insurance costs and generally facilitating better trials/training for those of us who are paying the subscriptions. I.ve spent more time and energy than most in organising training or coaching sessions for incomers to trials I.m very happy to do that but it would be ludicrous to inrease my subscriptions to bring on more circus riders who earn so much and give back so little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I object to having to pay Edited November 22, 2009 by AtomAnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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