martin belair Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) It apperas that Spain is on the verge of using Gate Trials for their National Championship according to SoloMoto Off Road and Todo Trial? confirmation by the RFME is the final step. Gate Trials was invented by American ( several NY WR & TdN) organizer Carl Peters back in the mid 90's. It has been used by clubs all over America for over a decade. The French and Spanish have now embraced/copied/invented it and added a complex scoring system and now the Spanish are about to be the first to use it in a National Championship. I hope that credit goes where it is due. Edited January 3, 2010 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 It apperas that Spain is on the verge of using Gate Trials for their National Championship according to SoloMoto Off Road and Todo Trial? confirmation by the RFME is the final step.Gate Trials was invented by American ( several NY WR & TdN) organizer Carl Peters back in the mid 90's. It has been used by clubs all over America for over a decade. The French and Spanish have now embraced/copied/invented it and added a ridiculous scoring system and now the Spanish are about to be the first to use it in a National Championship. I hope that credit goes where it is due. The French and spanish have not "embraced" gate trials in any shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) That is not a totally correct information. First; the rules the Spanish Federation want to use for the National Series are the "openfree" rules. (I agree with you that it is a ridiculous scoring system). Second; "Openfree" rules have beed "designed" or maybe as you say "redesign" by somebody called Mr. Estripeau. Third; Mr. Estripeau is the promoter or may I say sponsor of the indoor season and other top events. Fourth; top riders..... Ok, you can imagine the rest. In my opinion the beggining of the end, or maybe the beggining of the separation.... Edited December 2, 2009 by Greeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 If it happens... and in my humble opinion.. this would be an unmitigated disater for trials in general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted December 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) Greeves, I am aware of Mr. Estripeau and his large contribution to our sport.. Yes, he has played an important part in spreading the idea of Gate/Open Free trials in Europe. I do not wish to direspect his contribution, but the idea originated here in the USA around 1995 ....ask Tommi Ahvala. We have been using it for a long time in club trials. Nigel, perhaps "embraced" was not the best choice of words. Perhaps "tested" is better. Jordi, have you seen it? Have you participated in a test? If so, please give us details of your experience. There are many positives to this system and keeping an open mind and testing it are important. Edited December 2, 2009 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 In my opinion the beggining of the end, or maybe the beggining of the separation.... A few are trying to mix business with the pleasure of the many, the beginning of the separation sounds good to me. Give em their own sand box and let em get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Martin, a local club runs a "gate" or yankee trial and I make the decision not to participate. Its not trials as I know them and are passionate about. I have tried to understand OpenFree but again its not what I want from my sport. Its complicated beyond belief, observers are hard enough to get for most clubs so getting a mathamatician as well might just prove a step to far. Or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 So if Spain is possibly not going to use the FIM world championship rules then does that mean we can do something different as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Wow remarkable how close the regular trials/ open free gate trials debate is to the stop/no stop debate. I think this quote applies to both arguments. ishy Posted Today, 05:07 PMGive em their own sand box and let em get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Martin, a local club runs a "gate" or yankee trial and I make the decision not to participate. Its not trials as I know them and are passionate about. I have tried to understand OpenFree but again its not what I want from my sport. Its complicated beyond belief, observers are hard enough to get for most clubs so getting a mathamatician as well might just prove a step to far. Or is it just me? Jordi, please examine your statement, you say "I have tried to understand OpenFree" and then you say "I make the decision not to participate" when you had the opportunity. This sounds like a contradiction. Try it first and you will see that you may like it. Something has to be done to make World Championship possible for more riders. I give the Spanish credit for at least giving it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Jordi, please examine your statement, you say "I have tried to understand OpenFree" and then you say "I make the decision not to participate" when you had the opportunity. This sounds like a contradiction. Try it first and you will see that you may like it. Something has to be done to make World Championship possible for more riders. I give the Spanish credit for at least giving it a try. As said before elsewhere the gate open free or molestation will do nothing whatsoever to improve spactator understanding/appreciation of the WTC. IT IS our "shop window" the pinnacle of our sport and if the FIM will not give no stop a try I can't see the radical move to a complicated system being accepted by anyone in their right mind. There are less than a handful of gate events in europe and my guess it will stay that way. I'm with Jordi on this one, you don't have to eat **** to know it tastes bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Greeves, I am aware of Mr. Estripeau and his large contribution to our sport.. Yes, he has played an important part in spreading the idea of Gate/Open Free trials in Europe. I do not wish to direspect his contribution, but the idea originated here in the USA around 1995 ....ask Tommi Ahvala. We have been using it for a long time in club trials. Hi Martin; of course I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Hi Martin; of course I don Edited December 4, 2009 by Martin Belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I am really not against the openfree, of course it must be given their chance and it will be great fun to see and hear points of view once they introduce it. But I think such a radical change in the trial will not help, but it will hurt more, specially in my country. I know it's a personal opinion so that I could be wrong. etc. etc. etc. There are existing rules that make the sport affordable, colorful and practical for everyone, including non-stop rules. Scottish Six Days Trial in particular, where there are drivers of different levels, bikes of a wide range of years including some old twinshock, a trial that still is fun to race, watch and very mediathic. I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreilly Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have ridden a few gate trials of different variations.They are fun and can be very challenging.Some are run as gates are of the same value others where gates are for more points. If sections are set up proper you could have riders trying things more difficult then they normally would ride.I can see using it to make hard sections that only the best riders would try the hardest route and risking a failure, and they would get no points for there attempt.The scoring can get complicated for the observer. I do prefer normal trials but am open to other type rides. Hello Martin hope all is good with you.JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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