Reading Dicko's page three rant today, [ clicky http://www.tmxnews.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx...rticleID=954966

He's spot on about nothing new, I see many posts on here how far advanced technically they are and the truth is it's mostly borrowed technology, China is next, companies send them all the technical information they need to make whatever because they can build it at a fraction of the price it can be made in Europe or the USA.

All it is really doing is giving your jobs away and knowledge away because it's more profitable for some bugger to make another one or two billon they can't bloody spend anyway.

It wasn't long ago the best products to come out of those countries was plastic toys and tools.

Clearly Ishy beat me to JD's column this week.

It amazes me that since Korea ('52 ish) the US have been ranting on about the China as the other anti-christ. Nixon sort of broke the ice in about '72. But congress was still ranting.

Now China is (slowly) joining the West all congress can do is bitch about slapping trade restrictions on them.

Remember where the US came from?

I have strong feelings about China and India....

I'm all for equal trade Tim, I buy $10 of your product you buy $10 of mine, the trade deficite for the US is many trillions = mucho Jobs, patents mean nothing in China, how would you feel if you build some revolutionary device and found out it was being reproduced at a fraction of the cost in another country.

Would your feelings be as strong if it was taking your living away ?

I forget the exact date but by around 2020 china will have an economy greater than the U.S apparently... their excessive demand for their own markets (and export) has forced worldwide raw materials such as steel and aluminium pricing through the roof in 2003/4 and the cost of energy (electric, gas etc) has increased through their domestic consumption of coal..... The chinese economy is set to grow until 2040.....

Its sad i take interest in such trivia.....

I really do blame the Americans for their own demise, we were in florida and I would say that excluding food and cars 95% of retail goods were from the Chinese. That could be increased to say 99% of goods in Disney.

Short sighted in the extreme. Maybe trade sanctions are not fair and the states needs to export anyway but on anecdotal evidence watch out.

Oh man...dont get me started on all of this!!!!!!

Ishy..what do you mean they cant spend their money?...and toofasttim...I guess China is SLOWLY joining the west in some ways..(I guess you mean politically?) but in some other ways they are joining VERY quickly.

Agree with you dabster..but to anyone else out there buying goods they THINK are made in their home country.....beware..there's alot of tricks to making them in China and then labelling it as if its made elsewhere. I THINK there are one or two famous named trials items already doing that...(I repeat..I THINK!!!!!!!!!)

Anyway..its fun hearing all of this, since I;m here.

A little story along the lines of Ishys post..(which is REALLY true!!)

My mate has 2 factorys in China..and sells stuff to Woolworths/Early Learning Centre etc. Several times he has wandered into a street market in China, and found a product for sale that is HIS product, and one that he hasnt even released yet.

COPIED by his OWN workers..probably even using his own tools etc etc!!

Believe me....they will copy ANYTHING in this part of the world!!!!!!!!

ANYTHING!!!>..I even once found a copy squash racket for sale!

Years ago, my eldest was just beginning to read, and he became so aware of 'Made in China' stickers on *everything*.

He was quite small, and the wife was pregnant with our second, and Zack once said, "I think everything in the world is either made in Daddy's garage, Mommy's belly, or China".

My mate has 2 factorys in China..and sells stuff to Woolworths/Early Learning Centre etc. Several times he has wandered into a street market in China, and found a product for sale that is HIS product, and one that he hasnt even released yet.

COPIED by his OWN workers..probably even using his own tools etc etc!!

Believe me....they will copy ANYTHING in this part of the world!!!!!!!!

I work for Malaysian's, and China is one of our fairly big markets. We manufacture electronic control systems for the rigs out there.

One of our service engineers was out there and called me to say he had fixed the problem they were having and that he'd bring back the faulty circuit board. After the call I'm thinking....."hmmmmm, that particular rig never had that particular circuit board....the neighbouring rigs did, but not that one, hmmmmm"

The engineer arrives home and hands me the faulty circuit board, a buff coloured board. Now, all of our boards are green.....I don't care what anyone says, all of the boards we have EVER manufactured are green. So what's THIS!!! Our own dang Chinese customers copied our electronics for their systems. I also mention that we scrub the numbers off all the IC's when we ship, but still they managed it.

Ian.

Edited February 25, 200521 yr by IanJ

I also mention that we scrub the numbers off all the IC's when we ship, but still they managed it.

Ian, why don't you go to FPGA's? That'll screw'em.

As a student doing a degree in History and International Relations and I

In the USA go to a Wal*Mart and try to buy SOMETHING, ANYTHING made in the USA. It's impossible. As a consumer it would be nice to accually HAVE a choice.

We lose manufacturing and we lose everything. The powers in charge have really been asleep on this one. If they woke up today it would be very hard to fix.

Scary, scary stuff. Soon we will have no machinery, no qualified operators and no way to fix our own economy (say nothing of our own national defense).

All this and dealing with a country that kills unborn babies because your only allowed to have one. Just how much are we willing to give for the almighty dollar?

Whole thing seems VERY short sided and morally wrong to me.

BTW we can't get cigars from Cuba because they are communists. HA!

OK...another story for you all.

I have a friend in HK that is a journalist. He regularly sees his articles for the english paper here, copied word for word into "barbed wire" (as some of us call it)....for the Chinese paper.

If he calls them up to complain...they just say . Yes we did it, you can take us to court if you like

Thats in Hong Kong!!!...imagine what its like in CHINA!!...dont even THINK a copyright is gonna help you there!

IanJ...your story is VERY typical.

AND Charlie...I love that story...very funny.

Brain R argues the classic economic nationalist case - which if you believe in economic autarky is valid

I

Ian, why don't you go to FPGA's? That'll screw'em.

It's the dog simple I/O boards they are copying...... boards that just aren't worth re-designing to try to stop it........

We also do some work in India.....and it's almost laughable the repeated methods they use over there when contacting western businesses for "possible" work.

Via email:-

Indian client - "we have about 20 rigs were are involved with the design of right now, can your company please quote us for the Control System on-board....here's the spec."

We then go and build a bid package based on the supplied spec (which looks a read right out of our competitors manuals) and send it to them.

Indian client - "ok, got it, it looks REALLY good...hmmm, price is a bit high though...please remember there are 20 rigs....can you quote us cheaper?"

We re-do the bid and send to them. They come back more eager and happier than ever, they ask some technical questions, we answer them. A relationship LOOKS as though it's beginning to form.......

Then we get another email,

Indian client - "ok, can you send us much more spec on your actual design, do you have schematics.....our client got burned a few years ago on bad hardware so our policy is to scrutinize all detail design....oh!, and what software do you use".

STOP!!!......It should be apparent at this point what they are trying to do!!!

On other, smaller jobs we have been asked to supply 1.5 pieces of kit....they cite the other 0.5 as "spares"......but we know it's so they can rip it apart and copy it.

Business is tough.......

Ian.

Edited March 3, 200521 yr by IanJ