glowa Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hello, I ride enduro, especially I like tight technical terrain in the steep woods. I thought it would be fun to get myself a trials bike to train some moves. my enduro bike is a ktm 250 4stroke. Out of all trial motorbike manufactures the Beta dealer is the closest, therefore I am considering buying a beta unless someone here will tell me this is not a good bike and I should get another brand. Now I mostly write here to ask if I should buy 2 stroke or 4 stroke. As I said before I normally ride a 4 stroke and I love it but maybe the 2stroke is better for trials I have no idea, please advise on this, I was thinking of buying beta evo 250 4stroke please keep in mind that I am not posting this in Beta forum because I am sure there are mostly beta lovers posting there, and I would like to get independent answers, not biased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 We are all biased to some point. The Betas are great bikes. GasGas just declared bankruptcy and Ossas were built in the GasGas factory so they are shut down for now as well. Scorpa and Sherco are now made by the same company. Both nice bikes. Honda/Montesa are the predominant four stroke but are significantly more expensive than the other brands. Four stroke vs. two stroke might get you just as much debate as the brand. Personally I like two strokes. Lighter and easier to fix when something goes wrong. Since trials bikes are not run at high RPM the two strokes are pretty much put in premix and ride. Wear is not an issue as it is on a two stroke motocross bike. A set of rings lasts for years. The four strokes seem to need a lot more maintenance and to be honest I've been working for a few months on a friends four stroke Beta that has never run right since he's owned it. He also has a 2014 EVO 300 factory two stroke that is wonderful. I have a 2013 Beta EVO that has also been good with minimal problems. I've also had an '87, '91, '95, '00, '02, '05, '08. All have provided great service with minimal problems. Don't be afraid to ask on the brand forums. You'll find lots of fanboys but you'll also find some brutal honesty about problems with the bikes like Beta stators and GasGas gearboxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob214 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 welcome, and i would say buy the newest bike you have a budget for and most trials bikes are really reliable unless you fall and break stuff. for me the parts i break mostly are levers from falling. i've not had a minor or major malfunction with any bike i've owned. i had 3 gas gas, 2 beta and 1 sherco. all work as advertised with no issues. granted i switched from gg to beta when gg clutches were a problem but that's not an issue anymore. also i'm a 2t guy and not a fan of 4t's, those guys will pop up and give advice i'm sure. have fun whatever you decide rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowa Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I would prefer a lighter 2 stroke, but I am afraid feeling will be much different to my 4stroke enduro bike, and as I plan to switch between enduro and trial bikes a lot this is kind of a concern to me. Also I never rode 2stroke before, all my enduro bikes were 4 stroke Honda is out of the question, I do not even think I could buy this bike in my country, not to mention it is considerably much more expensive as you said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 250 4T Beta, nearly as light as a 2T and very easy to ride. Have a good test ride before you buy anything. Try a Beta 200 2T if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Don't worry about the feel of a two stroke. One of the common questions when I meet people on the trail is, "Is that a four stroke?" A trials two stoke is all about the low end torque and you'll get used to it very quickly. Edited June 1, 2015 by dan williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Beta`s are great bikes. The 4 stroke actually has some KTM history. Very soft and mellow. Enough after market parts to make it a hot fire breather if you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirdabalot Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 If you have never ridden a trials bike before you will have enough on your plate getting used to it, rather than wondering about what type of engine is fitted. But 2 stroke 250 gets my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowa Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Don't worry about the feel of a two stroke. One of the common questions when I meet people on the trail is, "Is that a four stroke?" A trials two stoke is all about the low end torque and you'll get used to it very quickly. a low end torque? I always thought 2stroke needs to be revved high to get high torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 a low end torque? I always thought 2stroke needs to be revved high to get high torque A common mistake. The four stroke does have a wider powerband, but at higher rpm's. This comes from Motocross Action Magazine: There is an old saw that states that horsepower doesn’t matter as much as torque. It is assumed that since four-strokes typically produce a boatload of torque, they have an advantage over two-strokes. Guess again, Sherlock! A KTM 250SXF four-stroke is no slouch at 19.42 foot-pounds of torque at 8600 rpm. That is a healthy number, but it pales in comparison to the 250SX’s 31.93 foot-pounds of torque at 8000 rpm (very close to peak horsepower at 8300). Although the displacements of the KTM 250SX and SXF are the same, the powerbands are horses of different colors. KTM 250SX two-stroke: The KTM 250SX has a very distinct powerband (as evidenced by its dyno numbers). It hits hard in the middle and pulls across a relatively wide range for a two-stroke. It tops 30 horsepower at 6000 rpm and stays above that until dropping below 30 ponies at 9800 rpm. By four-stroke standards, the power is peaky, snappy and explosive, but the two-stroke’s power is harnessed in a way that magnifies an all-out attack in the usable part of the powerband. It doesn’t rev past 10,000 rpm, but it doesn’t have to, because it gets the job done at an engine-saving 8300 rpm. From idle to 9400 rpm, the KTM two-stroke makes more power than the KTM 250 four-stroke. In fact, there are points along the 250SX’s dyno curve where it makes as much as 19 horsepower more than the four-stroke ever dreamed of producing. The 2012 KTM 250SX is the greatest two-stroke engine ever manufactured. KTM 250SXF four-stroke: Every test rider who got off the KTM 250SX two-stroke and on the KTM 250SXF four-stroke laughed out loud when comparing the power. “The two-stroke blows the four-stroke away” was the common refrain. In test starts, the two-stroke riders would let the four-stroke go before blasting past it in 100 feet. In back-to-back races against the KTM 250SX, the KTM 250SXF engine felt slow. It revved slower. It had less hit. It droned when the two-stroke went braaappp. But, and this is a big but, while the four-stroke’s hit was less pronounced, there was no wheelspin and no wiggle under acceleration. The slow feel of the KTM 250SXF was misleading. The lack of the sensation of speed wasn’t indicative of a lack of speed on the track. The 250SXF may have been down 10, 15 or 20 horsepower at various stages of the powerband, but after 10,000 rpm, the two-stroke was down 30 horsepower to the four-stroke. What the 250SXF lacked in ponies, it made up in rpm. The four-stroke revved 3000 rpm further than the two-stroke, and during those 3000 rpm, it was making broad, usable and tractable power. The 13,500 rpm rev limiter is 3500 rpm higher and wider than the two-stroke’s working spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popty bing Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 A 2 stroke trials bike has no power band! It is all torque, right from tick over. I've always had 2 strokes but have ridden an occasional 4 stroke. For me, the 2 stroke is a lot easier to ride, is lighter and requires minimal maintenance on the engine side. Get your oil mix right and use good fuel (and oil). Get a test ride on as many different bikes as you can, and as stated above get the newest you can afford. It will be a totally different kind of ride, as most riders I've seen that come from a MX or Enduro background use speed, and lots of it to get through a section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowa Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I had my mind set on a 4 stroke, but after reading some of your answers I am not so sure anymore - especially if 2 stroke will be easier to ride, I have absolutely no way of test riding ANY trials bike. I was planning on buying a brand new one from the dealer. I am really used to 4 stroke power on my enduro bike, but I am guessing the trials gearing and powerband will still be much more different to my enduro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you post where you live it is near certain someone will be able to tell you where you can get test rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialtrial Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Glowa, I am similar to you. I have a 350excf I love to ride single track. A few years back I wanted to get a light weight single track bike. I tried an old GG 280 2T, an 08 Beta 4 stroke, an OSSA explorer 2T and now I compete trials with my 2012 GasGas 250 2T. Like others have pointed out, trials bikes are designed way different that 2 stroke enduros. Trials bikes have tons of torque. Some trials bikes are very smooth an linear, just like a 4 stroke bike. My GG 250 is torquey and smooth, not hit, nothing scary about it. Put on a slow throttle tube to start with and see how you get on with it. The only thing with the 4 stroke trials bike (for me) is the compression braking. I have grown used to the softer 2 stroke compression braking, and when I get on a 4 stroke its kinda odd. But that does not mean I would not get used to it again. If you go 2 stroke I suggest that you stay 250 or smaller. Unless your are "expert enduro", the 280s and 300s can be handfuls. If I lived close to a beta dealer, and they were a good dealer, I would buy a beta. Local parts supplier means a lot to me. I would bug the beta dealer to see if you can meet up with someone just to go for a put-put around the local trials area on their 2 stroke. Make sure its a bike similar to what you will buy (e.g. beta 250 2T). I have "bought on spec" (without a test ride) many times, and have been disappointed most every time. Good luck, let us know how you make out. Edited June 18, 2015 by trialtrial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean65 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm looking at two Gasgas bikes at the mo. A 280 and 270 txt. Ok as beginners bike? Both 2 strokes!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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