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paul7

Weight

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Talking to somebody the other day about the differences between the older bikes and the newer models, the main thing I was told I would notice would be the difference in weight. So I was looking at Beta 125 factory dry weight 143 lbs, so I'm figuring by the time you add fluids, transmission oil, coolant, fuel, etc. you looking at another 6 or 7 lbs. so a bike around 150 ready to ride. I weighed my 11 year old Sherco gassed up ready to go, 164 lbs. Not that much difference, not sure I would notice it. Doesn't really seem like a whole lot of progress.

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My wife has an 08 Gas Gas TXT Pro 125 and I have an 07 Montesa 4RT and where I can feel the difference after an updates to the suspension by changing to a liter fork oil and after words the difference felt much less as the bike has a bit more spring in it now.  

 

FYI: I ride intermediate and the difference hasn't held me back at this point and I suspect it won't any time soon.  

 

hope this helps.

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The thing about the weight of a trials bike is this.  The closer the mass/weight is to the pivot point (where the tires actually touch the ground) the lighter it will feel and the easier it will be to manoeuvre.  So, the lower the weight, the lighter it will feel and the higher the weight, the heavier it will feel.

 

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Spent last night riding a 240 SWM. My friend was on his 4rt. Difference in weight in reality is about 30kg.

Difference in riding is significant but in part due to much better suspension brakes and clutch on the mont. That rotax motor still produces phenomenal torque though ?

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Like mentioned before, there is a difference in actuall KG's, and the percieved weight by the rider. Big difference will also be felt in the suspension.

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Difference between my 08 GG and e.g. an 2000 edition is like 14kg's or something. This is a considerable difference. But it feels even bigger, but the engine also feels a lot different etc.

 

difference between dry and wet weights should be around 3.5kg's or so. But is around the same for both bikes (edition has little more fuel and oil).

Edited by crazybond700
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Had the pleasure of riding an 05 a sherco 250 back to back with my 125 of the same year. Although there's only a minor difference in weight the 125 feels a lot smaller and lighter. Recent suspension updates have mahnified the feeling too. That said. A 2014 gg I tested recently feels similar to my 125 on size and weight.

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Had the pleasure of riding an 05 a sherco 250 back to back with my 125 of the same year. Although there's only a minor difference in weight the 125 feels a lot smaller and lighter. Recent suspension updates have mahnified the feeling too. That said. A 2014 gg I tested recently feels similar to my 125 on size and weight.

Thanks everyone for the replies!

 

Yeah I keep reading that, I guess I'm trying to convince myself that's the route I want to go.

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There is a reason why the 125 feels that way, it's due to the lighter crank/flywheels causing less gyroscopic effect apparently and the effect is reported to be noticeable on road bikes that differ in motor size but otherwise similar.

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Interesting how the inertia of the moving parts can make it all feel so much different isn't it.  My first experience with it was when I rode a 280 Gas Gas after having been on my wife's 125 Gas Gas, it was quite noticeable even with the bikes being close in year and only a small kg difference. 

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Try riding a +-250 two stroke mx or enduro bike with the same year 450 4 stroke. Main weight difference is the engine, but they feel completely different.

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You can feel gyroscopic forces at work quite easily and demonstrated quite well with a large bicycle wheel.

For anyone that is interested or not done it before ( probably as a kiddie taking his/her bike apart?).

Hold the ends of the wheel spindle in each hand and roll the wheel along the ground ( or ask someone else to spin it for you) as fast as possible.

Then try turning it left and right or tipping to the left or right.

You will feel gyroscopic forces.

This happens to any spinning thing, crankshaft, camshaft, flywheel, front wheel etc.

It is why counter steering works to good effect on a road bike at speed and is one reason a two stroke feels more nimble than a four stroke, lighter and fewer spinning parts.

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You can feel gyroscopic forces at work quite easily and demonstrated quite well with a large bicycle wheel.

For anyone that is interested or not done it before ( probably as a kiddie taking his/her bike apart?).

Hold the ends of the wheel spindle in each hand and roll the wheel along the ground ( or ask someone else to spin it for you) as fast as possible.

Then try turning it left and right or tipping to the left or right.

You will feel gyroscopic forces.

This happens to any spinning thing, crankshaft, camshaft, flywheel, front wheel etc.

It is why counter steering works to good effect on a road bike at speed and is one reason a two stroke feels more nimble than a four stroke, lighter and fewer spinning parts.

 

Last 2 stroke road bike I rode was a gt750 suzi wasn't light or nimble  :hyper: great bike though!

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I had a engine of that in my hands, (including all loose parts) and I can tell you that aint light ;) And it has (for easy saying) 3 times more mass turning arround. And I rarely (read never) jump it ;)

Edited by crazybond700
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