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dan williams

‘18 popping out of gear

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I've got a 2019 been out a few times on it and today it came out of 2nd on its own a few times....after coming off an 06 that was absolutely bullet proof i'm starting to wish i'd tried a different brand...

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:09 PM, Beta rev'3 said:

I've got a 2019 been out a few times on it and today it came out of 2nd on its own a few times....after coming off an 06 that was absolutely bullet proof i'm starting to wish i'd tried a different brand...

That's not encouraging since you should have the new cam.

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It's behaved today and stayed in gear, it definitely feels like a challenge trying to find neutral and the petrol cap does me in, that had me cossing a fair bit ?

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The bike is not supposed to find nuetral easily when running.

 Not fixing the fuel cap is just crazy of them.

Edited by lineaway

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I put the new updated gear cam in my 2016. It has popped out of gear. Only once so far though. I have friends with 2018 Factory's and their bikes pop out of gear. 

"Popping out of gear", in this case, is the same as "Popping into neutral". If you look at the updated cam vs the original design, there is nothing changed to make it harder to go into neutral.

IMG_4883.JPG

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Popping out of gear must be caused by all those expensive name brand oils. DexIII and I don't even have the folding tip on my lever. I only have missed 1 shift all year and it never has popped out of gear.

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Yes I get it shouldn't find neutral easily when in gear I was just comparing it to my old 06 which never came out of gear but was a lot easier to find neutral on.

I did toy with the oil Idea after its first oil change I put Putoline GP10 in it, I've ordered some of the recommended in the manual and will try that to compare it

Yes the Petrol Cap is a chuffin Joke...

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I finally got around to ordering the hole jig from emachineshop that will let me put neutral between any two gears. Hopefully I got the dimensions close enough. It should come in end of December.

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On 11/14/2018 at 10:35 AM, thesolidman1 said:

I put the new updated gear cam in my 2016. It has popped out of gear. Only once so far though. I have friends with 2018 Factory's and their bikes pop out of gear. 

"Popping out of gear", in this case, is the same as "Popping into neutral". If you look at the updated cam vs the original design, there is nothing changed to make it harder to go into neutral.

IMG_4883.JPG

It is a better fit for the 16mm bearing on the indexer but I agree that is not going to fix it.

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So close to buying a new 250 Evo and carrying out the clutch fix and sticking an aftermarket fuel cap on but all this talk of them popping out of gear is really putting me off ? 

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 You have one guy talking about and two want to be`s chiming in. I have never heard anyone in my club ever mention it. I have ridden about 40 events on my 2016 and it never has. I did miss a shift once this year!

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17 minutes ago, lineaway said:

 You have one guy talking about and two want to be`s chiming in. I have never heard anyone in my club ever mention it. I have ridden about 40 events on my 2016 and it never has. I did miss a shift once this year!

Huh? I’d never heard of it my self until I saw this but for other owners, with 2018/2019 models, saying they have this problem too, it’s a bit worrying when i’m looking to buy a brand new one. I do acknowledge there are tonnes of Evo’s out there and this is only a tiny few people talking about this issue... 

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The real reason for 1st then neutral and then 2nd is this:

As 1st gear is the lowest ratio in the gearbox, it is the gear set that creates the most torque and therefore will try to force both gear shafts apart. To prevent this happening to the detriment of the support bearings and the gears, 1st is placed as close to the gearbox case and its bearings. Imagine if you will two shafts about 7 inches long inserted into two holes drilled into a steel block, the shafts are a nice sliding fit in the holes...almost a perfec fit. Now you put your hands on the ends of the shaft and try to push/pull them apart, due to the length of these shafts at their top you would feel movement but slide you hands down to the base where the shafts go into the block and you will be hard pressed to make any movement sideways at all. Thats why first gear is where it is as its the strongest place to locate it. Kawasaki used a neutral indexing system that meant when going down the box the gear lever stopped at neutral, first was then selectable after either coming to a standstill or double clicking the gear lever....nice but only good for the road.

There were some gear boxes made where neutral was the lowest position for the selector mechanism and all other gears were 1,2,3,4, etc.

The same scenario is found in nearly all car and lorry gearboxes of the manual variety, that is 1st neutral 2nd etc.

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Nah I think that’s overthinking it. Most transmission designs are like carburetor designs. Taken from street bikes where you are only in first or second when you are stopping or starting. The time you usually need access to neutral. The majority of time you are rolling around in a higher gear. Trials bikes are a different animal since the critical operating regime is typically the first three gears. 

As for popping out of gear there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence that my experiance is not unique. So if yours doesn’t have this problem good for you.

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7 hours ago, dan williams said:

Nah I think that’s overthinking it. Most transmission designs are like carburetor designs. Taken from street bikes where you are only in first or second when you are stopping or starting. The time you usually need access to neutral. The majority of time you are rolling around in a higher gear. Trials bikes are a different animal since the critical operating regime is typically the first three gears. 

As for popping out of gear there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence that my experiance is not unique. So if yours doesn’t have this problem good for you.

Well if you want a really heavy constructed gearbox case able to deal with neutral and then first etc start thinking in terms of extra weight as not only will the cases have to be stronger, but also the shafts will need to be thicker and the bearings much larger to cope with torque wind up forcing the two gears of first apart and forcing the shafts to try and splay away from each other. Bike transmissions have always had a tendency to ‘pop’ or ‘slip’ or ‘jump’ out of gear and thats without hunting down all those ‘false’ neutrals that some boxes appear to have. Nine times out of ten its the riders that miss the gear by prodding the gear lever which in most cases is set at a higher position on the splines to avoid rocks and branches that are deciding on a new gear lever shape for you! everything on a competition bike is short in the foot operated lever department and thats the rub....make the detent overly strong and you will have selection issues, tame the detent plungers tension and then you get gears jumping out of selection. Thats my experience on the subject, but I take issue with your comparison between carburettors and transmission designs. Trials bike transmissions are almost as small as they can be designed unlike carburettors that may well have started out life intended for a scooter ot industrial engine plant, thats why there are so many about and options to swap are readily available.....unlike transmissions for specific motor cycles ie Trials bikes. 

As an aside I can tell you that a certain Formula One race car maker actually copied the transmission sequential change from a motorcycle. in conversation with the designer, when I asked what bike did you get the transmission from, he reached under his desk and pulled out a Honda CG 125 engine and transmission. His stated words were, it works perfectly and why re-invent the wheel when some one has already done it for you! Neutral was still in between first and second gear too!

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