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Brits in Trial GP / Trial GP overall

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3 hours ago, breagh said:

You're right , can't really think of a worse career choice, doesn't Raga still do Trials schools? Don't think he's what we would call minted.

 

He had a school session booked with John Lee earlier this year that got cancelled due to the rescheduling of competition events due to Covid.  I had booked up with it and both the missus and me were going.  £100 a head IIRC.   The wife was looking forward to meeting Adam but not entirely about his teaching ability....

I don't claim to know what sort of payment these guys get for X Trial and the like.  Pat Smage did a couple in France and they are on YouTube.  He slept in the van (provided by the factory) so I doubt there was a big budget for him.  The GoPro footage from his helmet over the obstacles was interesting.  Not for the faint hearted.

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4 hours ago, breagh said:

You're right , can't really think of a worse career choice, doesn't Raga still do Trials schools? Don't think he's what we would call minted.

Bou will have made a bit and I wouldn't grudge him a penny even though he hasn't done the SSDT which is his loss.

 

I agree, I doubt any of them will be "minted" and likely not able to live off their career earnings, without some clever investment, once they retire (unlike many other modern motor cycle sports professionals, the likes of Valentino Rossi, Toni Cairoli, Bubba Stewart etc...).  

As regards the SSDT, I recall back a few years where Albert Cabastani rode it. I heard some feed back on the grapevine that he found himself discriminated against - unfair observation etc... and didn't enjoy the experience. Or maybe it was just too cold, long and wet for him! ?

Anyhow he is likely to have reported back to his riding buddies - Bou & co.  Or maybe the cost for the team with all the entourage these days would be too high and not worth the bother?

Either way its a shame that the top elite foreign lads don't ride it!

Edited by Intotrials

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1 hour ago, on it said:

NO nigel YOU TELL US  were the money is in trials ? as for your perspective of me what ever !  As for names how far back do you want to go ?    i have been doing trials  long enough to know  there is NO money in it !  , if it costs "X" amount to sponsor a rider   and that sponsor/business used the same "X" amount advertising on the internet  which will have the bigger audience trials rider or the  internet ? value for money. /,So tell   us Nigel when the rewards are  so low why are these riders allowed to/are  keep push  the sport to such a level that the costs out way the return AS cost and commitment  well thats any sport if you want to be good at it !"Hard circus sections" how do you think non trials riders see it ? when grass root riders can not even relate to the sections  !"Riders  priced themselves out of a job" well they can not afford to pay for it on there own but  they need to be in it to win it to get the sponsor  ! why do people think trials will become a mass spectator sport and that will  fix the cash problem ? some sports are just not popular to non participants and trials is one of them sports

sorry if people feel this is harsh but whats the point of looking through rose tinted glasses at  problems  As ive said in the past trials at grass routes is doing well !!! the part of trials that is struggle is the part were money /sponsorship is involved  !!!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought trials is /will or has been a professional sport

Sorry no offense, but I'm a little lost on your argument? 

We are all aware that there is no money in trials and that its only popular with mainly "trials" riders, especially at grass roots level. It's also obvious that the major problem is with the minority at the elitist level. But the point is because there is no money to aid young talent and or existing talent to compete at this level then there will of course be no riders coming through to "de-throne" the top few riders. Unless you are privileged enough to come from a wealthy back ground, to compete at this level is going to be extremely difficult and requires significant sponsorship funding. I don't see how this is directly the individual rider's fault? It's just the way the sport has developed like it or loathe it. 

No one is arguing that to achieve great things requires great commitment and hard work! But again, this is the point, that commitment and hard work also requires funding, certainly at the top level where the intensity is extreme and this includes all forms of motorsport, modern trials being one of them.  

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46 minutes ago, Intotrials said:

...  Or maybe the cost for the team with all the entourage these days would be too high and not worth the bother?

..

I would think that is the case.  Out the loop for a week.

Factory sponsorship is designed to promote a brand and encourage people to buy that particular bike/brand.  If Bou rode the six day and won it everyone would say it was him not the Montesa so hardly a good investment.  More likely that the importers would stump up a few quid to see a top name or two.

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1 hour ago, Intotrials said:

Sorry no offense, but I'm a little lost on your argument? 

We are all aware that there is no money in trials and that its only popular with mainly "trials" riders, especially at grass roots level. It's also obvious that the major problem is with the minority at the elitist level. But the point is because there is no money to aid young talent and or existing talent to compete at this level then there will of course be no riders coming through to "de-throne" the top few riders. Unless you are privileged enough to come from a wealthy back ground, to compete at this level is going to be extremely difficult and requires significant sponsorship funding. I don't see how this is directly the individual rider's fault? It's just the way the sport has developed like it or loathe it. 

No one is arguing that to achieve great things requires great commitment and hard work! But again, this is the point, that commitment and hard work also requires funding, certainly at the top level where the intensity is extreme and this includes all forms of motorsport, modern trials being one of them.  

no offence  taken at all  "intotrials"  BUT i really dont think people are aware because if they are why have they picked trials ridding as a carrier ?  trials will ever only be a hobby sport and  these riders need to  grasp that fact

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22 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

I would think that is the case.  Out the loop for a week.

Factory sponsorship is designed to promote a brand and encourage people to buy that particular bike/brandIf Bou rode the six day and won it everyone would say it was him not the Montesa so hardly a good investment.  More likely that the importers would stump up a few quid to see a top name or two.

And that is part of the issue, the majority of trials riders don't buy a particular brand because their favourite elite rider rides one, or they are encouraged to do so because a particular person dominates on a particular brand. If this was true then the trials scene would be swamped with people riding Repsol 4rt's!

But instead you see the established favourites, like GasGas, Beta, Sherco etc... being the most popular modern clubman bike.

Unlike other motorcycle sports I can see that there is hardly any value in a factory promoting their bike via the world trials scene. I can see hardly any value in big sponsors funding it either, there just isn't the public interest in trials. 

As "on it" pointed out - in general "trials is a hobby sport".

Edited by Intotrials

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19 hours ago, on it said:

no offence  taken at all  "intotrials"  BUT i really dont think people are aware because if they are why have they picked trials ridding as a carrier ?  trials will ever only be a hobby sport and  these riders need to  grasp that fact

Glad you took no offense, I don't disagree with you other than I don't directly blame the each individual rider!

If I had half a shot at earning a living doing the thing I love then I'd give it a go, even if in the end it wouldn't/couldn't be a sustainable career. In my eyes good luck to anyone who has the talent and the opportunity to try it out, and if they fail at least they tried!

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1 hour ago, Intotrials said:

And that is part of the issue, the majority of trials riders don't buy a particular brand because their favourite elite rider rides one, or they are encouraged to do so because a particular person dominates on a particular brand. If this was true then the trials scene would be swamped with people riding Repsol 4rt's!

But instead you see the established favourites, like GasGas, Beta, Sherco etc... being the most popular modern clubman bike.

Unlike other motorcycle sports I can see that there is hardly any value in a factory promoting their bike via the world trials scene. I can see hardly any value in big sponsors funding it either, there just isn't the public interest in trials. 

As "on it" pointed out - in general "trials is a hobby sport".

All true.  The big difference between us and the broader bike scene is that trials bike buyers are buying to ride in the sport.  If Suzuki (for example) are the winning bike in the GP it might well see a lot of road riders buying a new gixer as opposed to a Kawasaki.  Even if the Repsol was the super-duper go-to machine it is not the one most of us are going to buy as we are not super-duper go-to riders.  Just read the number of times a Beta 200 is recommended by other posters as an "ideal" bike.

One sponsorship item we are overlooking though is the obstacles on X Trial.  They all seem to have some sponsorship logos on them.  Maybe that is what we need to do?  Find a sponsor for the obstacles?  Is there a big cash rich company out there?

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For the advertisers its about 2 things, exposure and off setting tax.

The bigger the exposure the better the marketing, what trials needs is more exposure to the wider audience. X-trial is probably the best setting for this, a bit like super cross in MX. Events like this would be more appealing to the general public (no chasing motorbikes around a muddy field in the cold and wet). 

I'm no expert on the subject, so I have no answer to it, but I keep my fingers crossed because I love the sport at all levels and hope it survives into the future at all levels!

  

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Cabestany not riding trial E next year. Trials is hitting the buffers,  I dont understand the fascination with hard enduro which just looks like the Scott trial on the wrong bike ? But people are getting paid to do it, ex trials riders do very well.

Last year I rode a downhill mtb for a day in andorra,  brilliant day out, very popular but not cheaper ?

You need a certain number of people to make a sport viable, we no longer have enough people buying modern bikes for the world championship to be viable. If the wtc stops what happens ?

 

Edited by baldilocks
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On 12/3/2020 at 8:39 AM, Intotrials said:

For the advertisers its about 2 things, exposure and off setting tax.

The bigger the exposure the better the marketing, what trials needs is more exposure to the wider audience. X-trial is probably the best setting for this, a bit like super cross in MX. Events like this would be more appealing to the general public (no chasing motorbikes around a muddy field in the cold and wet). 

I'm no expert on the subject, so I have no answer to it, but I keep my fingers crossed because I love the sport at all levels and hope it survives into the future at all levels!

  

It would be amazing to get more exposure to Trials. And then this would put more money back into the sport and for the riders who put so much time and effort to become top riders. For my sins, I work in media/marketing and you’re so right about exposure. Unless there’s a particular reason to get associated with grass roots advocates (happens quite a lot in board sports, for example - get associated with ‘cool’ etc) then the large companies and/or their agencies simply won’t blink unless there is a big and quantified audience. There’s zero sentiment out there.

Such a tough nut to crack.

nb. If anyone is properly serious in this space then do ping me a pm - happy to kick around.

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On 12/1/2020 at 2:19 PM, ChrisCH said:

I would think that is the case.  Out the loop for a week.

Factory sponsorship is designed to promote a brand and encourage people to buy that particular bike/brand.  If Bou rode the six day and won it everyone would say it was him not the Montesa so hardly a good investment.  More likely that the importers would stump up a few quid to see a top name or two.

hasnt really happened for a while though......struggling to think who and when?

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On 12/1/2020 at 11:42 AM, on it said:

NO nigel YOU TELL US  were the money is in trials ? Whats that got to do with this thread, where did i mention there was money in trials? as for your perspective of me what ever ! Its a perspective gained from you making an assertion then not answering a simple question several times question  As for names how far back do you want to go ? Anyone from anytime will do   i have been doing trials  long enough whats that got to do with anything?to know  there is NO money in it ! So sammy toni  Mick andrews rathmell Dougie mart tarres (etc etc)and others didnt gain anything from competing?  , if it costs "X" amount to sponsor a rider   and that sponsor/business used the same "X" amount advertising on the internet  which will have the bigger audience trials rider or the  internet ? Adverstising needs to be a target audience what is the best place to advertise is best left to experts, youre mixing sponsorship with internet advertising which isnt always the same thing value for money. /,So tell   us Nigel when the rewards are  so low why are these riders allowed to/are  keep push  the sport to such a level How does a rider push the level with any kind of willingness, isnt it simply a given fact that performances techniques and the improvement of bikes, all 3 elements added together which has increased severity?that the costs out way the return AS cost and commitment  well thats any sport if you want to be good at it !"Hard circus sections" how do you think non trials riders see it ? How many wtc's in the flesh have you seen in the last 20 years? when grass root riders can not even relate to the sections  !"Riders  priced themselves out of a job" well they can not afford to pay for it on there own but  they need to be in it to win it to get the sponsor  ! why do people think trials will become a mass spectator sport and that will  fix the cash problem ? some sports are just not popular to non participants and trials is one of them sports can you write these sentances in a coherent form cos im struggling to see your point?

sorry if people feel this is harsh but whats the point of looking through rose tinted glasses at  problems  As ive said in the past trials at grass routes is doing well !!! Evidence or anecdote? the part of trials that is struggle is the part were money /sponsorship is involved  !!!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought trials is /will or has been a professional sport See a few names above

And please YOU TELL US which riders think it owes them a living?

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