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4 strokes and other stuff…


Hughie
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Evening all,

Just trawling the internet looking at new and new/used bikes and getting a bit bewildered (it’s not difficult!)

As I am now a seasoned rider (!) of some four months I want to upgrade my bike so I just thought I’d share this and see if anyone has any interesting input. I bought a Rev3 250 to get going and see if I liked it but I’m hooked and I’d like something newer really. I’d also quite like a 4 stroke, no real reason I just like the sound of them and I like the idea of low end low rev grunt, I always liked that in other bikes I’ve had. And hopefully they’re a bit quieter for practicing at home.

If I haven’t missed anything, I think that means Montesa 260/300, Beta 300 or Tenaci-Wong 200 for new and add in Beta 250 if a few years old?

Now I’m very much a ‘wobbler’ having only half a dozen trials and a few hours practice under my belt and I know only too well that a 300 2 stroke of any type would be far more bike than I need and would spit me off in an instant (been there). But does the same apply for the 4 stroke bikes? Really, I want something that’s smooth and progressive with hopefully a nice smooth clutch rather than the ‘light switch’ I have on the Rev3 (yes, I have done the Beta clutch fix, twice! And filled it with Nano Trans…. It’s still pretty shocking)

Has anyone tried a Tenaci-Wong and are they any good apart from the suspect name? They’re certainly well priced.

Would be good to hear some views on the above, the alternative is to get a newer 2T I guess but then there’s a whole other load of things to consider. Short of a Beta 200 Evo, which I would buy (if I bought a 2T) but cant find anywhere, I have no idea how to choose between the different brands…. Although I’d probably select something with a right hand kicker….

Rambling on a bit, fancy a four stroke, haven’t got the opportunity to try them all out really….. but if I’m going to spend a few quid I want to buy something I’ll keep for some time.

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I think you might find a Beta 250 4T is even rarer than the 200 2T. Because of that I started on a 300 4T. Although I was told it was milder than a 300 2T it was still lively enough to throw me at several rocks and trees, so I moved on.

Everyone with a Montesa loves it so a 260 should be pretty OK.

The only person I know who had a Tenaci Wong sold it after about 6 months. I don't know why. When I looked at it they seemed to be a lot right, but there were also a few aspects that looked cheap and under-engineered.

There is also a 4 stroke air-cooled Scorpa (or Sherco, I get them confused). It's only 125 or 175 but I've seen them perform well.

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7 minutes ago, trapezeartist said:

I think you might find a Beta 250 4T is even rarer than the 200 2T. Because of that I started on a 300 4T. Although I was told it was milder than a 300 2T it was still lively enough to throw me at several rocks and trees, so I moved on.

Everyone with a Montesa loves it so a 260 should be pretty OK.

The only person I know who had a Tenaci Wong sold it after about 6 months. I don't know why. When I looked at it they seemed to be a lot right, but there were also a few aspects that looked cheap and under-engineered.

There is also a 4 stroke air-cooled Scorpa (or Sherco, I get them confused). It's only 125 or 175 but I've seen them perform well.

Ah yes, the little TY125. Forgot about that, I think they can be kitted up as well. Interesting what you say about the 300 4T, what did you move on to?

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Don't get a Montesa if you want a quiet bike.

I'd probably keep the Rev before the Tenaci Wong, you would have no real performance gain by changing.

Clutches will be equivalent on a newer bike then what the Rev is, the mechanical function is the same.
The diaphragm clutches of GasGas, Ossa and late model Sherco, Scorpa seem to offer a larger friction zone than the basket clutch design but it is marginal and nothing you cant adapt to.
Have you filed the faces of the clutch basket where the tangs of the clutch plates contact, if these have worn grooves you would get a light switch clutch.

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6 minutes ago, kurtas said:

Don't get a Montesa if you want a quiet bike.

I'd probably keep the Rev before the Tenaci Wong, you would have no real performance gain by changing.

Clutches will be equivalent on a newer bike then what the Rev is, the mechanical function is the same.
The diaphragm clutches of GasGas, Ossa and late model Sherco, Scorpa seem to offer a larger friction zone than the basket clutch design but it is marginal and nothing you cant adapt to.
Have you filed the faces of the clutch basket where the tangs of the clutch plates contact, if these have worn grooves you would get a light switch clutch.

Actually no, I did the cleaning up the fibre plates and filing the tabs but didn’t do anything to the basket itself. So are you saying that all the hydraulic trials bike clutches are the same and just as ‘jerky’? I want to update the bike anyway but it’s interesting that there might not be much difference?

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The rev 3 and Evo clutch do have a narrower range of engagement compared to other brands.

You do get used to it rather quickly and if you don't then swapping out the clutch slave cylinder for a larger diameter one will give you a more progressive engagement and lighter feel.

Don't really rate any of the four strokes as quiet tho. Just bear that in mind. The Evo 4t is the quietest. 

If you still learning, then setup the Rev properly, keep it for a year till you gain valuable experience and then move up to a fresh bike

Edited by gasgasman280-
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36 minutes ago, gasgasman280- said:

The rev 3 and Evo clutch do have a narrower range of engagement compared to other brands.

You do get used to it rather quickly and if you don't then swapping out the clutch slave cylinder for a larger diameter one will give you a more progressive engagement and lighter feel.

Don't really rate any of the four strokes as quiet tho. Just bear that in mind. The Evo 4t is the quietest. 

If you still learning the setup the Rev properly, keep it for a year till you gain valuable experience and then move up to a fresh bike

That does sound sensible… I didn’t know you could do that to the clutch which is my main gripe. Any idea where I can find out more on this? Thanks for the tip 👍

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I'm lucky to have a 250 4T (my friend upgraded to a 300, so I bought it from him). I started on a Rev3 270, and the difference is remarkable! The 4T is smooth and very quiet and seems to be very forgiving of a beginner rider like me, with good torque low down. There is still plenty of power there though, when you need it. I think the 300 4T isn't too different, though it sounds louder (not as loud as a Montesa though!)

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Have owned a few EVO 250 / 300 4t's & 4RT's.  250 EVO is a bit lacking in the power dept.  Standard EVO 300 4t is spot on. (Factory models considerably livelier). All quieter than 4RT & grip better.  Very good build quality, but not quite HRC. Airboxes better, & exhausts can melt your pants.   

4RT great to own & ride. Peerless build quality, a bit noisy, or not. Depends how you look at it. They do have a bit of a weight disadvantage  & not too great in the grip department when conditions are muddy. Airbox not exactly the best in class.

If not an expert rider, all benefit from a slight lowering of gearing, so worth going down a tooth on the front if you find them running on a bit in tricky turns..  

Condition is paramount if buying a used bike, so whatever you model you go for, walk away from any tired examples. 

If you want a four stroke, for me,  it would have to be an EVO 300 for rideability or 4RT for the wonderful sound & HRC engineering.

FWIW , a 300 Beta 2t with all of the Supersmooth tweaks is a wonderful clubman bike.  

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1 hour ago, pjw123 said:

Have owned a few EVO 250 / 300 4t's & 4RT's.  250 EVO is a bit lacking in the power dept.  Standard EVO 300 4t is spot on. (Factory models considerably livelier). All quieter than 4RT & grip better.  Very good build quality, but not quite HRC. Airboxes better, & exhausts can melt your pants.   

4RT great to own & ride. Peerless build quality, a bit noisy, or not. Depends how you look at it. They do have a bit of a weight disadvantage  & not too great in the grip department when conditions are muddy. Airbox not exactly the best in class.

If not an expert rider, all benefit from a slight lowering of gearing, so worth going down a tooth on the front if you find them running on a bit in tricky turns..  

Condition is paramount if buying a used bike, so whatever you model you go for, walk away from any tired examples. 

If you want a four stroke, for me,  it would have to be an EVO 300 for rideability or 4RT for the wonderful sound & HRC engineering.

FWIW , a 300 Beta 2t with all of the Supersmooth tweaks is a wonderful clubman bike.  

Thank you, thats really helpful info 👍

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7 hours ago, gasgasman280- said:

The rev 3 and Evo clutch do have a narrower range of engagement compared to other brands.

You do get used to it rather quickly and if you don't then swapping out the clutch slave cylinder for a larger diameter one will give you a more progressive engagement and lighter feel.

Don't really rate any of the four strokes as quiet tho. Just bear that in mind. The Evo 4t is the quietest. 

If you still learning the setup the Rev properly, keep it for a year till you gain valuable experience and then move up to a fresh bike

The evo 300 4t with standard muffler is the quietest trials bike I have seen by far, even quieter than a Reflex.  I was warming up mine the other day.  It was on the other side of a sliding glass door and I had to listen very carefully to tell it was running.  I have heard that other mufflers give it much more power and much more noise.  I do think the evo 2t clutch is a little more progressive than the 4t clutch but not a huge difference.  The 4t is vey easy to kick over.  

Edited by mcman56
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What about the power, is it less aggressive than (any given) 2T 300, which would be way too much for me, or is it more manageable being a 4T? I guess Im trying to find out if a 300 4T would be too much for me, I know there no way on Earth I would want a 300 2t, I wouldn't buy anything bigger than a 250 and probably a 200 if I could find one. But with 4 strokes there isn't the choice as far as I can see. Is that because they are less 'pokey' than the 2 strokes? 

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4T riding style is a bit different, although less so at lower levels, but not light and day different. Less reliance on clutch slipping, the Beta just plonks along beautifully. A steady throttle needed in mud, not blipping looking for traction like a 2 stroke can where you feel for grip. Once you  loose it on 4T it’s harder to get back. But with a steady throttle it will grip beautifully. The power comes in very progressively and a BIG improvement if you want smooth steady power delivery is to swap standard throttle for an Amal 80/200 body. Very easy, straight swap, at the carb end you just swap the nipple into the “other” hole next to one it’s in now. Personally it’s my favourite modern bike. The 250 was actually a bit underpowered many thought, 300 is docile enough until you open it right up. 3004T certainly won’t be too much for you

Ive had 3 and never had any maiitanence issues, you will need to learn the knack of starting them when hot if you stall. Yes 4rt is very well made and reliable but I think Beta rides better, it will just chug along on tickover.

If you get one give it time, not everyone takes to it straight away. Good idea to try first if you can.

 

Edited by timdog
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