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andy

Week 160 -

49 posts in this topic

if you are not taxed or insured don't ride in a road trial, simple. just go to a normal trial on private ground and do what you do normally, just because you can't do the road trial doesn't mean you can't ride

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Driving any motor vehicle without insurance -

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Driving any motor vehicle without insurance -
Edited by Old trials fanatic

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I personally feel privileged to ride my trials bike on the road in road based trials.I always have tax and insurance , but my bike (a two year old model) is like every other trials bike ... far from perfectly legal.

If the police are going to turn a blind eye to the fact that i have a small number plate (normally covered in mud), almost flat tyres , a non road legal helmet (how many are road legal ?) etc etc then fair play to them. In fact i think we should thank them for taking a sensible stance.

Remember ... if they want to, they can turn up , nick EVERYONE and the trial's over.

If you are dumb enough not to realise this and dont bother with the three things the police seem to be concerned about,Tax , Insurance and numberplates then do me a favour and take up another sport so you don't ruin mine.

Tax

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As i said earlier as youre a house owner, registered keeper, pillar of the community youre an easy target for plod to keep his targets up and the chattering classes pacified. Last night there were 4 foul mouthed scroats on "bikes" and quads on the playing field and a to??er in a scooby pullin doughnuts, no offence meant Andy, but was there a plod to be seen anywhere? go figure. I know the bikes werent legal, dont know about the scooby but doubt it, either way they have made a right mess of the playing fields. They then proceeded to ride off on the roads of the estate. Plod nowhere to be seen as per usual in fact you never see a plod here after dark and never ever on foot.

No i am not condoning riders in a road trial not taxing or insuring their vehicles but would just like to see plod, whose wages I PAY FOR LETS NOT FORGET !!!!!, go after the scroats who will go on to mug or worse somebody at some point BEFORE they go after the easy targets.

When and if i ever think of an instance when plod ACTUALLY did something useful for me and i cant i might feel differently.

When i rode in Spain the difference was amazing. At the trial the police couldnt have been more cooperative even stopping the traffic to let the riders cross or come onto the road. Now i never expected that !! Then again i'm used to this lot over here.

Old trials fanatic, as a plod it concerns me you have such a poor opinion of us as, if I was aware (and I can speak for 95% of those I work with) that such an incident was happening in my area I would be there to deal with the foul mouthed scrotes and the car driver. So, did you bother to phone for the Police (plods) when you saw this was happening or would doing that frustrate your obvious need to attack plod as you seem to enjoy doing?

If you did phone what was the response, did they give you an incident number, did they say they would send an officer, did they send an officer and how long after your call did they attend?

I cannot accept that if plod were aware of such an incident they had not responded and if they did not respond after any call you might have made then you can and should make a complaint.

I worked nights last week, the first night - a Monday, I dealt with a shooting at a pub, a male in a ski mask walked into a busy pub during a card game and blasted another with a sawn-off shotgun. Plod (a colleague and me) had to arrive before the paramedics to ensure their safety and rightfully so, many of the others present were hostile to plod presence and some considered it was our fault the shooting had taken place for not being there to prevent it. After dealing with that I resumed patrol (stopping off at the nearest nick to clean the blood and snot from my clothes and wash my hands) and attended one job after another, fights, windows being broken, businesses being broken into, domestic assaults, prowlers and then ended up in the custody office from about 3am with a prisoner for a domestic assault.

The next night was equally busy starting off with a stabbing where one alcoholic 40 yr old stabbed his equally inebriated brother with a large kitchen knife after an argument over who had hidden the white lightning.

After that I took a drunk driver to another division of my force area after a nasty crash as the intox machine (a computerised breath specimen analysing machine) on mine and an adjoining division were faulty. All these things take time and the jobs rarely stop coming in, and in these two nights I'd not had time to eat or have a brew in either of the 10 hour shifts and neither had any of my 15 colleagues, strange when I look back as 17 years ago when I started in the job at the age of 29 after the recession had too much of an effect on the motor industry and mechanics were struggling for work, we paraded with around 35 cops - sorry - plods, yet we are busier than ever and have less staff.

Wednesday night was slightly quieter and although i locked up (arrested someone) for yet another domestic assault, I had a good 20 minutes to cram in a sandwich and half a brew before I turned out for yet more jobs.

Thursday started with an armed robbery and the arrest of the culprit by a colleague and then it was just a constant stream of work, mostly alcohol related, some drug related but never anything other than challenging and draining.

It's the same for most response plods in most forces.

We get well paid and as such we should be committed and work hard, don't get me wrong I know a fair few work shy fools who swing the lead and moan about various ailments and they get nice 9 - 5 office jobs with every weekend off and a guaranteed dinner break and they get paid the same as me and our employer allows this without any challenge.

I know that we have recently seen incidents where the plod have failed to help people, such as the chap with learning difficulties who had been taunted for years by local thugs and was found dead in his garden last week and the lady who took who own life and that of her daughter in a terrible car fire, again after years of abuse from local thugs.

But many similar people have been in similar cases and have been helped by the plod, we just need to make sure it includes everyone and we get it right first time.

And day in and day out I see and hear of criminals who pose a real threat to society being released early from prison or being given non-custodial sentences for serious crimes, and despite what the government says about crime, it has increased but the way crime is recorded has changed, it's massaging figures to dupe the public.

So Old trials fanatic I'd like you to do me a favour, although you don't live on my force area I know a few lads and lasses who work for Derbyshire plods and if you have a plod related problem then you can phone me (pm me for my number) and I'll make sure you get to change your attitude about plod. Or maybe you are just one of life's moaners and you'd rather not so you can continue to vent your misplaced anger. I hope not.

Thanks.

Pete.

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Eiger

Nice to hear things from the sharp end.

Very easy to pass the blame when people are caught out doing wrong- ie no tax/insurance. How dare you catch us, catch somebody else!!!

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Old trials fanatic, as a plod it concerns me you have such a poor opinion of us as, if I was aware (and I can speak for 95% of those I work with) that such an incident was happening in my area I would be there to deal with the foul mouthed scrotes and the car driver. So, did you bother to phone for the Police (plods) when you saw this was happening or would doing that frustrate your obvious need to attack plod as you seem to enjoy doing?

If you did phone what was the response, did they give you an incident number, did they say they would send an officer, did they send an officer and how long after your call did they attend?

I cannot accept that if plod were aware of such an incident they had not responded and if they did not respond after any call you might have made then you can and should make a complaint.

I worked nights last week, the first night - a Monday, I dealt with a shooting at a pub, a male in a ski mask walked into a busy pub during a card game and blasted another with a sawn-off shotgun. Plod (a colleague and me) had to arrive before the paramedics to ensure their safety and rightfully so, many of the others present were hostile to plod presence and some considered it was our fault the shooting had taken place for not being there to prevent it. After dealing with that I resumed patrol (stopping off at the nearest nick to clean the blood and snot from my clothes and wash my hands) and attended one job after another, fights, windows being broken, businesses being broken into, domestic assaults, prowlers and then ended up in the custody office from about 3am with a prisoner for a domestic assault.

The next night was equally busy starting off with a stabbing where one alcoholic 40 yr old stabbed his equally inebriated brother with a large kitchen knife after an argument over who had hidden the white lightning.

After that I took a drunk driver to another division of my force area after a nasty crash as the intox machine (a computerised breath specimen analysing machine) on mine and an adjoining division were faulty. All these things take time and the jobs rarely stop coming in, and in these two nights I'd not had time to eat or have a brew in either of the 10 hour shifts and neither had any of my 15 colleagues, strange when I look back as 17 years ago when I started in the job at the age of 29 after the recession had too much of an effect on the motor industry and mechanics were struggling for work, we paraded with around 35 cops - sorry - plods, yet we are busier than ever and have less staff.

Wednesday night was slightly quieter and although i locked up (arrested someone) for yet another domestic assault, I had a good 20 minutes to cram in a sandwich and half a brew before I turned out for yet more jobs.

Thursday started with an armed robbery and the arrest of the culprit by a colleague and then it was just a constant stream of work, mostly alcohol related, some drug related but never anything other than challenging and draining.

It's the same for most response plods in most forces.

We get well paid and as such we should be committed and work hard, don't get me wrong I know a fair few work shy fools who swing the lead and moan about various ailments and they get nice 9 - 5 office jobs with every weekend off and a guaranteed dinner break and they get paid the same as me and our employer allows this without any challenge.

I know that we have recently seen incidents where the plod have failed to help people, such as the chap with learning difficulties who had been taunted for years by local thugs and was found dead in his garden last week and the lady who took who own life and that of her daughter in a terrible car fire, again after years of abuse from local thugs.

But many similar people have been in similar cases and have been helped by the plod, we just need to make sure it includes everyone and we get it right first time.

And day in and day out I see and hear of criminals who pose a real threat to society being released early from prison or being given non-custodial sentences for serious crimes, and despite what the government says about crime, it has increased but the way crime is recorded has changed, it's massaging figures to dupe the public.

So Old trials fanatic I'd like you to do me a favour, although you don't live on my force area I know a few lads and lasses who work for Derbyshire plods and if you have a plod related problem then you can phone me (pm me for my number) and I'll make sure you get to change your attitude about plod. Or maybe you are just one of life's moaners and you'd rather not so you can continue to vent your misplaced anger. I hope not.

Thanks.

Pete.

Well i've read all that and i must admit i feel quite humble.

In answer to your initial question when the incidents first started happening about two years ago when i moved to the area i did phone the Police, lets call them that after reading your post i feel it fairer, they didnt get back till the following day came to look at the field and grudgingly took details. Never heard anything, never saw an increased Police presence nothing. About 4 months later a car was set fire to and again i rang 999. This time the fire brigade turned up as did the Police but the Police had to stay with the fire engine to protect it and the fire men from the local scroats.

To give the local community Police due when i rang recently because a "scrap man", pikey, had been caught by my dog and me loading cast iron furniture into the back of his pick up from out of my garden after jumping over my 6ft wall to get it. I went for him with a bit of 4 x 2 and he threw it all off and scarpered quick. The Police did attend after approx 30mins but as i didnt get his reg number which was probably irrelevant anyway being a pikey they couldnt do anything. They drove around the estate and did get back to me with an incident number but as far as i know nothing as happened since.

I am probably bitter because of where i live and as soon as i get back on my feet i'm out of here and the scroats can have it all to themselves.

I read your post and thought why do they do it? you i mean. I couldnt / wouldnt but thats the nub i suppose you and your colleagues are all we have and in reality thats better than nothing i am sure. Suppose part of the problem is we never see you, the Police that is, unless we are being done for something so our judgement may be slanted. Some of your colleagues attitude doesnt help either, remember the one who suggested i move who was then asked to leave.

I dont condone any rider trials or otherwise riding illeagally and that includes without the landowners permission, we all suffer because of the actions of a few, but i do feel persecuted at times by the Police and do genuinely feel as i have an address and am on the database, DVLA electoral roll etc , that i am an easy way of the Police hitting their personal and divisional targets. I am not on my own in this believe me.

However i appreciate your post and offer but for the sake of my windows i have found that in this area keeping your head down is the best policy. A Police car outside your house may not be a rare occurance in these parts but it's an advert i can do without.

Perhaps if all the Police i have had to come into contact with over the past 56 years were as measured as yourself, seem to remember a local copper giving me the odd cuff around the ear for scrumping and then taken home to get another one from me dad LOL, i wouldnt feel the way i do about who the Police are there to serve and protect.

I appologise for any offence i may have given to you.

Edited by Old trials fanatic

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Well i've read all that and i must admit i feel quite humble.

In answer to your initial question when the incidents first started happening about two years ago when i moved to the area i did phone the Police, lets call them that after reading your post i feel it fairer, they didnt get back till the following day came to look at the field and grudgingly took details. Never heard anything, never saw an increased Police presence nothing. About 4 months later a car was set fire to and again i rang 999. This time the fire brigade turned up as did the Police but the Police had to stay with the fire engine to protect it and the fire men from the local scroats.

To give the local community Police due when i rang recently because a "scrap man", pikey, had been caught by my dog and me loading cast iron furniture into the back of his pick up from out of my garden after jumping over my 6ft wall to get it. I went for him with a bit of 4 x 2 and he threw it all off and scarpered quick. The Police did attend after approx 30mins but as i didnt get his reg number which was probably irrelevant anyway being a pikey they couldnt do anything. They drove around the estate and did get back to me with an incident number but as far as i know nothing as happened since.

I am probably bitter because of where i live and as soon as i get back on my feet i'm out of here and the scroats can have it all to themselves.

I read your post and thought why do they do it? you i mean. I couldnt / wouldnt but thats the nub i suppose you and your colleagues are all we have and in reality thats better than nothing i am sure. Suppose part of the problem is we never see you, the Police that is, unless we are being done for something so our judgement may be slanted. Some of your colleagues attitude doesnt help either, remember the one who suggested i move who was then asked to leave.

I dont condone any rider trials or otherwise riding illeagally and that includes without the landowners permission, we all suffer because of the actions of a few, but i do feel persecuted at times by the Police and do genuinely feel as i have an address and am on the database, DVLA electoral roll etc , that i am an easy way of the Police hitting their personal and divisional targets. I am not on my own in this believe me.

However i appreciate your post and offer but for the sake of my windows i have found that in this area keeping your head down is the best policy. A Police car outside your house may not be a rare occurance in these parts but it's an advert i can do without.

Perhaps if all the Police i have had to come into contact with over the past 56 years were as measured as yourself, seem to remember a local copper giving me the odd cuff around the ear for scrumping and then taken home to get another one from me dad LOL, i wouldnt feel the way i do about who the Police are there to serve and protect.

I appologise for any offence i may have given to you.

No offence taken and I appreciate your reply. Yes some cops lack manners, commitment and our attitude is sometimes poor but many of us want to do what is best and really do have compassion and a desire to lock the scumbags away for as long as possible.

And I can appreciate your concerns over the cop suggesting you move, and I would have asked the same question - why should I?

Life is difficult for many of us now but my view is that we are still there and will help so phone us and if you get short shrift then phone again then hound us and them make a complaint, be a pain and write to your MP, local councillor, senior cop. They hate letters and complaints.

Things will change for you, you just have to be persistant.

Thanks

Pete

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I was at the Travers Trial last year when a TVR turned itself ito bits of fibre glass due to being driven by a total tosser, when plod finally arrived they just couldn't resist pulling a few bikes even though they should have had better things to do.

Back in the mists of time I remember riding in the Loch Lomond 2 Day Trial. Coming back on to the road at the end of the second day I was pulled by the local plod. I had a good yellow number plate with reasonable sized letters etc which just needed the mud whiping off it. I was then pased by a Scottish rider with a lump of scraggy lino hanging off the back of his bike but he wasn't even pulled. Is this crazy policing or just pure racism ???

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Dunno mickwren but i am sure Eiger would point out that at teh end of the day the Police are just people with all the foibles that we all have.

I remember getting done for incorrect spacing of the numbers on my number plate, they were 6mm out BTW how i hung my head in shame, when i pointed out to the officer a couple of cars passing that had worse plates than mine one was in itallics for christs sake. His response was and i quote "i'm doing you sonny not him" funny ha ha !. He did ask "is your front number plate the same?" told him why dont you take a look ? Realised at that point ther was no point in trying to reason with some / most /all Police.

Perhaps he had had a bad day as per Eigers posting and as i said before i wouldnt do their job but i do wonder sometimes what goes on inside some and i stress some, because i have to believe there are some good coppers out there, coppers heads.

Like in so many walks of life nowadays common sense is so sadly lacking :wall:

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he wasn't even pulled. Is this crazy policing or just pure racism ???

Pure racism obviously, as we are all related to each other up here (all 5million) and all know each other.

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I never know in advance what my column will produce by way of comments. This one certainly has started something.

By the way Pete, didn't recognise you observing first Hawks Nest section - close to knackered then after our Traditional Trial the day before and then the Bemrose, not to mention doing the results for 151 riders Saturday evening.

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Back in October 1968 I bought one of the first Montesa Cota's from Westbury motorcycles in Bristol.

The following week I rode the taxed and insured bike to work, just to run the engine prior to the week ends Hoad and Perce Simon Trials.

Anyway on the way back to Poole from Hurn Airport (where I worked) I was pulled over at Wallisdown traffic lights and asked what I thought I was doing riding on the road without an exhaust system.

When I retorted that the engine still running quietly the policeman said it did not matter as he could clearly see there was no exhaust system fitted, so I asked him why smoke was coming out by the top of the right rear shock mounting.

What I got was "Don't be smart and get on your way and don't let me see you again" .

When he got back into the panda car his colleague shook his head laughed at him and made a shaking gesture with his right hand.

What he did not see was me pulling a wheely away from the lights, but our club secretary (Norman Ley, XHG Tigers) did and later told me I should really learn how to control the clutch.

Is this relevant, may be but thanks for the thread. Nostaglias great while you have got the memory.

I can't decide whether to be a good example or a horrible warning.

Martin

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Dunno mickwren but i am sure Eiger would point out that at teh end of the day the Police are just people with all the foibles that we all have.

I remember getting done for incorrect spacing of the numbers on my number plate, they were 6mm out BTW how i hung my head in shame, when i pointed out to the officer a couple of cars passing that had worse plates than mine one was in itallics for christs sake. His response was and i quote "i'm doing you sonny not him" funny ha ha !. He did ask "is your front number plate the same?" told him why dont you take a look ? Realised at that point ther was no point in trying to reason with some / most /all Police.

Perhaps he had had a bad day as per Eigers posting and as i said before i wouldnt do their job but i do wonder sometimes what goes on inside some and i stress some, because i have to believe there are some good coppers out there, coppers heads.

Like in so many walks of life nowadays common sense is so sadly lacking :wall:

Totally agree, common sense went out of the window some time ago. I could once use discretion but with Home office pressures and the desire for statistics it is increasingly difficult and where once you could simply have a word with someone, now you are expected to deal with them formally.

I am expected to achieve a number of arrests, stop-searches and other targets each month, it doesn't affect my pay but if I don't then I'll be up in front of my Inspector explaining why I've failed.

Others in different departments such as traffic also have similar targets and will for example, have to achieve so many fixed penalties for speeding, no seat belt etc.

I saw a post on here a while ago, I think it was from Andy, it showed footage of a traffic car with two cops in it snoring away and it reminded me of when I started as a new cop and we had to do a 5 week attachment with the divisional traffic unit.

I was assigned to a bloke who on 6am to 2pm shifts (when we worked regular 8hr shifts) would park up at 6am on the A6 some 4 miles short of Manchester city centre and on Vascar (an in-car speed indicator) he would spend the next 90 minutes giving out speeding fines to people on their way to work. The road where he chose his prey is four lanes (two southbound and two northbound) and has a 30mph limit. He would prosecute around 10 motorists then return to the nick for a brew, write up the paperwork from his mornings work and then do sweet nothing for the rest of the day.

I remember feeling that it was not Policing, almost every person we stopped was on their way to work, and as such were generally pro-Police (or at least had been until that point) and probably more importantly, easy prey and would pay the fine. He even gave me a rollicking once for admiring a motorcycle we had stopped and being too friendly with the rider.

During the attachment he had a couple of days off and I was switched to work with another traffic cop I'd liken him to Father Jack from the tv programme, he had massive hands and a purple nose and swore like a trooper but I spent 2 days with him stopping car after car and hammering the occupants for any and every offence from seat belts to number plates, he never stopped and frequently finished work late. But he impressed me as his targets were not decent law abiding people but the criminal fraternity who seem to get away scot free so often. He has retired now but i still hear the regular burglars and thieves I come across mentioning his name and referring to him as a b*****d who showed no mercy. Shame we don't have more of his like now.

But on a different note people rarely die as a result of a burglary or theft but do die from speed and/or alcohol related injury so we need to strike a balance and there is a need for cops in all guises.

Sweeping statements that all cops are disinterested idiots are wrong.

Pete.

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During the attachment he had a couple of days off and I was switched to work with another traffic cop I'd liken him to Father Jack from the tv programme, he had massive hands and a purple nose and swore like a trooper but I spent 2 days with him stopping car after car and hammering the occupants for any and every offence from seat belts to number plates, he never stopped and frequently finished work late. But he impressed me as his targets were not decent law abiding people but the criminal fraternity who seem to get away scot free so often. He has retired now but i still hear the regular burglars and thieves I come across mentioning his name and referring to him as a b*****d who showed no mercy. Shame we don't have more of his like now.

But on a different note people rarely die as a result of a burglary or theft but do die from speed and/or alcohol related injury so we need to strike a balance and there is a need for cops in all guises.

Sweeping statements that all cops are disinterested idiots are wrong.

Pete.

I suppose that sums up how i feel about the Police.

Pete have you ever thought of doing PR for the force ??? Certainly tempered down some of the rants on here ME INCLUDED :barf:

I suppose it's like in my ex job we had to do what our lords and masters commanded. Till i'd had enough and told one of them to pick a window. Probably not the most intellegent thing to do financially but i'm enjoying my early retirement, apart from the local scroats :angry:

So will try to be a little more understanding but find it hard from contact with the Police to go that extra step and i dont know if i'd ever help one if they needed it. Saddens me to say that because thats not how i was brought up but it's the truth ossifer.

Perhaps they should change the enlistment criteria to must have big hands and a purple nose, actually sounds like our old village copper too come to think of it, now in the upcoming election that is a policy i would vote for :thumbup:

Edited by Old trials fanatic

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