g4321

Looks like it is listed as a TL125 engine of 1988 vintage - copy the following link into Googles translation tools bit and translate from jap to english The TL125 is the Jap market equivalent of a TLR200 - although its 125 not 200cc! Gordon http://www.honda.co.jp/news/1988/2880209.html There is a website which lists all the Honda model codes but I cant find a link to it at the moment

Although Mr B lives and works in Scotland he has not yet managed to get full nationality. What is this - Scotland is a country all Scots are proud of - England is a country that all English (and Scots, Irish and Welsh are embarassed by! A teuchter is a term for someone from the country rather than the city, its prevelant in Aberdeenshire, Banffshire, Morayshire and Inverness. Someone from a small town is looked upon as a teuchter to someone from a city yet someone from a village is a teuchter to a town dweller. I think if you used the term South of Perth you would be greeted by a blank look. Keep up the Good work M4RT - it makes entertaining reading

Looks like the steel plates have cured the problem - hard to say on a muddy farm road with nothing to really load the clutch but next time i have the bike out in anger will tell............! EBC have a (temporary?) reprieve. As for car oils in bikes it really depends onthe spec of the oil. I raced a YZ400 yam and a mate had a 426. Both of us used car oils all the time - neither of us with any problems. We made sure that the specification was correct - not just the oil weight but whether there are any friction modifiers or similar in the oil. The yamaha manual had a strict oil specuification laid down for these bikes and we both found an oil which exactly met this - both different oils, one fully and one semi synthetic.

Cost did not really come in to it - I needed plates in a hurry & could get these next day. EBC are usually a quality product - I have never had problems in the past - and dont know YET if this is the source of my problems now. If my dealer had offered me some cheap aftermarket bits I would not have used them. I dont ride the clutch in sections ( I have spent too long riding road bikes and scrambles bikes to change my habits!) so the improved action of CG125 plates would be wasted on me - as long as a clutch does not slip under power was all I was bothered about & I wanted the bike back together asap. If I had intended doing anything to the clutch when I rebuilt the motor I would have used Honda bits. The only bits I dont bother with factory parts on all my bikes are - fork seals, plugs, chains, sprockets & brake shoes/pads & apart from my road bikes clutch plates.

Rings are still available - were they were 6 weeks ago when i fitted a set to my bike! By the sounds of things the TLR200 and 250 countershafts must be interchangeable - wish I'd known this before.

Well I have just finished changing the steel plates on the bike - now it has new (genuine) steel plates, EBC springs & friction plates. The steel plates which came out don't look that good so hopefully this has been the root of my problems. I don't want to blame the EBC plates out of hand until I have tried the clutch with the new steel plates. If it does slip then - I will appoint blame. Initially when I rebuilt the bike i had clutch slip - the friction plates did not look too god although they were in spec. I never bothered much about the steel plates at this time. On trying the bike with new friction plates & springs - still slip but not so bad (subjective?) . hence my 'hope' the steel plates will cure the problem. We will see! I will try bike AM Thursday along a farm road.

Trouble is this is bolting the carthorse door once the horse has bolted. If a bike has been run for several years with a sprocket rockimg on a shaft there is very little metal left for the splines on the sprocket to drive on. I have repaired this on my bike but if I could have acquired a new countershaft I would have replaced it and then ensured that the sprocket was never 'loose'

Thanks for the info - exactly what I was looking for. The springs i took out of the bike are close to the wear limit quoted (~36 mm) but this does not explain why the EBC springs I was supplied with seem lighter?... For the record TLR200 springs are listed in the Honda manual as 35.1mm and 31.6mm wear limit. Hopefully my new steel plates will cure my problems

The Gollner TLR250 countershaft is a std TLR250 part. the wear which causes the problem is the 'splines' which drive the sprocket rather than locating the circlip. The splines wear with the sprocket 'rattlling' on the shaft with dirt/grit etc between the sprocket and the sahft increasing the wear. The wear can be reduced by fixing the sprocket onto the shaft so it is not able to rock or rattle, partially by turning or milling washers so the sprocket is fixed securely and by shimming the splines between the sprocket and shaft. Similar problems are also seen on other Hondas which have no cush drive to take up any shocks on the drive train.

Does anyone have the spring specifications for the TLR250 - they are NOT the same as the TLR200 but are the same as the XR200. What I am interested in is the spring wear limit or even a typical length if someone has an old spring lying around - or an XR200 manual! I have new springs & friction plates from EBC on my rebuilt bike and am suffering from slight clutch slip in high gears. On comparisson with the springs that were fitted to the bike before I bought it (no idea if they are original or not - hence the plea for original specs) the EBC springs are longer but seem softer (easier to compress). I am waiting for new steel plates in case distortion or wear in these is the cause of my problems but would like to know a little more about the springs before I strip/rebuild again. I have also contacted EBC re springs. I have tried the clutch with excess play in the cable and straight mineral bike specific oil to eliminate all other factors. I have also tried the bike cold and hot. I had used a different oil initially but this oil has been used several times before in my other TLR with no problems, under significantly harder use than the problem bike so it is highly unlikely to be oil related. The clutch should havve been well bedded in after 4-6 hours running.

Interesting ! The TLR250 countershaft is a one-off ie this is the only bike it is fitted on - I contacted Appleyards and like Hens Teeth was a simple description. Honda have it listed as obsolete/not available. There are numerous bodges you can do to fix sprocket onto shaft but the main problem with them is wear betwwen the sprocket and locating splines. Thanks Gordon

Where did you manage to locate a countershaft - I was told they were unobtainium by Honda. Gordon

As a matter of interest what height have all you 250 riders (and 200!) out there got their forks set in the yokes.? I know the theory behind the geometry changes when you raise and lower fork height and have experimented with this at great length on another bike to try and improve things but in this case I am interested in what others have done. Gordon

Thanks Mick I never thought of looking at Hondas that new. If I had not made the extensions to weld onto my original rests already I would be very tempted (also I am mean and enjoy doing things the hard way!) Can you post the part-nos- for others benefit in the future. Gordon

Estimate a cost - then double it ! There will always be more requiring repair/replacement than you initially think Things like tyres Shocks Bearings Fork seals & other seals Chain & Sprockets You may initially think when you look at a bike 'will do' but by the time you come to think about using the bike 'are done'. Its not the big stuff that adds to the cost but all the little bits you initially think are insignificant. Gordon

Anyone know how many RTL's were officially imported into the UK.? I wonder how many survive When were they no longer available?

John I thought your original price was a bit high for the RTl - funny though that in the 3 or 4 TMX's I have been going through from 87 there are numerous pictures of RTL's (and Gollner's I hasten to add) from the various trial reports. One dealer - cant remember what offhand has an advert for RTL's with a big 6 available in the advert. I am going through my old TMX's trying to find some more details on my bike - unfortunately they are mixed in with 20+ years of MCN etc!!! Hope you are taking your RTL out on Sunday.

This site has some really exotic bikes for sale - everything from RC45's, NR750's and an RC30 through to numerous MV's, a few TZ yams, A Rennsport BMW and even an HL500 Yamaha scrambles bike (10K euros!!!). Well worth a look - BUT the prices are all best described as to the high end of the scale. The site is well worth a look as you wait for your lottery numbers to come up - the RTL appears to be the only trials bike by the way. I can always dream - I could fill may garage several times over from this dealers stocklist.

For interest - from March 6th 1987 TMX Appleyards TLR200 -

Thanks for the info guys What age XL Honda rests would fit? I tried to get a set at the local breakers but they had nothing with wide enough mounts. I have bent up metal tonight to fit/widen the rests and should end up with approx 50mm wide footrests when I have them welded up. I have also prepared metal to widen the back brake lever to make this easier to catch with you foot in a tricky situation. One thing to note if you do go about widening the footrests this way is that clearance between the footrest and swinging-arm when the footrest springs up is quite low on the gear change side of the bike and you can only widen the footrest over part of its length for this reason - copying the same pattern for both sides will not work.

What are the widths of the various aftermarket footrests that others are fitting to their TLR's? I am in the process of widening my footrests (all extra width is being added to rear of footrest to give a small degree of moving centre of footrest back) and would like an indication 'how wide to go'. The bike has a powder coated frame (done before I got it) so I dont want to cut-off the original mounts and re-weld alternative mounts. If anyone requires a copy of the 200 & 250 manual I have a pdf they can borrow. Happy new year by the way!

Interesting comments - I certainly noticed a difference in handling over the same 'sections' although it was not a back to back comparisson. I will need to take both bikes to the track together for that - which I will do come time.I have only had 4-5hours running on the Gollner, some of that setting up bike. My twinshock TLR is not the bonniest of bikes to look at but mechanically is 100% with a particularly strong pick-up at low-mid range. By comparisson the Gollner is smoother (freshly re-built motor). a The bike does seems quite big - this may be due to the layout of tank/seat unit and rear mudguard. b It feels lighter than my twinshock bike - direct comparisson in garage. c It is harder to lift the front-end - whether this is engine related or rear-suspension related is difficult to assess - I suspect engine. d There appears to be more grip than the twinshock bike - perhaps this is because the Gollner is allowing me to use higher gears than on the twinshock for the same section (suspension or engine or combination?). e There appears to be more rear wheel travel than the std TLR250 (with Falcon shocks fitted). I reserve the right to change my opinion after I have entered my first trial on this bike!!! If your friend has any literature or info on the monoshock bikes I would be interested in seeing a copy (happy to pay costs)

Having seen a couple of 125's in local trials I was tempted but the little factor of money - not being able to justify a 'new' trials bike to go along with my other road, scrambles and classic bikes and more importantly space came to mind I felt from the way the 125's were being ridden they could do with a little more 'go' and really did not fancy a 'wee engined bike'. I was not really looking for a change - my TLR250 was more than enough bike for me but a conversation with a man I knew put me on to thie monoshock bike and the seed was sown in my mind. I would have liked to build a 'special' - a 4st jap motor in a modern monoshock frame (still would!) - this has been in the back of my mind for a long time - perhaps I will do yet but at the moment I am delighted with what I have - I still have my twinshock bike for ts trials and for a bit of variety. As for being competetive I dont really care - its all a bit of fun to me on a Sunday afternoon in the winter. There is one thing though - its highly unlikely another bike the same will turn up at a local even - pity then we could compare notes! It was my understanding that Gollner made these bikes as a cost effective and available alternative to the RTL 250.

The reason I bought a Gollner Mono was that I wanted a fourstroke and this is something completely different. To me this is the only cost effective 4 stroke monoshok bike there is. The new Honda is far too expensive to throw down a rocky burn, the Scorpa is a bit too small at 125 (or expensive at 175!). If I thought there was any chance of me being up there with the top guys in my class i might have bought a modern bike eg Beta or (Mont.) Honda 2 stroke. As my previous post said - I am not going to be competetive mainly both due to lack of skill and there is such a wide range in talent in the novice group at the trials I frequent. I was usually towards the bottom end of the pile on my twinshock TLR (often the only twinshock competing!) but not too far off my mates on modern bikes. Perhaps this new bike will help - perhaps not! To me it would be a shame to modify the bike back to twinshock, but since I have one of those as well I may be biased. If anyone does modify their bike back plese send me the shock etc as a spare !

Interested to hear what you thought was wrong with the bike - was the rear shock worn out perhaps? After re-building my Gollner TLR the 3 other guys who have ridden it (modern bike riders & one P65/modern bike riders) all were very complimentary - without heavy handed persuasion I hasten to add! I know its not going to be competetive in a modern bike trial but then neither am I. Its going to be more competetive than my twinshock in the same trial - I hope ! but you have sown seeds of doubt in my mind!!!