kjax

Good luck Martina- I always smiled when we had a "chick" kickin butt in the sportsman class - we'll miss ya.

From a rider and promoter point view... What a great event it must have been. New and different - blended with the tried and proven. Sounds like the perfect mix. I was not able to attend in 2008 but will try to plan for it with a group from MI for 2009. Keep us posted with dates once they are set. Great Job for your club and our sport! Keith

Can you say "World Class" ? Great job Pat!

Ron, from what you say it certainly seems that the discipline and structure I was asking about exsists within your circle. Can all manufacturers and importers say the same? If the importer is running his own dealership under the same rules as any other dealer, that sure seems to fair enough. Lord knows in this economy, you might not make it without the added cash flow from retail. If all dealers and importers played by the same set of rules, then it comes down to the individual running each operation and the popularity of each machine. Which in my opinion is the way it should be. If anyone wants to get some exposure here in MI let me know......

I love it, Angelina in a body suit on a new Beta......hmmmm. Anyway, that made me think of when KTM did an ad with Sheryl Crow, anybody else see that? Something about "real riders- bikes for real people" She was on a bike, riding -guess it could have been a double...

Good points Tim! I think the "warm fuzzy" aspect of trials could be a great draw, it's just that the low profile style of the trials community does not do very well at self promotion. The other thing going against the popularity of trials is image. Many younger riders want the "hotshot" image of a tricked out CRF450 laying sideways in the air off of the big triple! Most new riders know that they won't ever do that, but it "looks cool" and is also what your buddies are thinking as well. Enduro cross is not trials for sure, but as I mentioned earlier, it may be the "bridge" that will help to put some new attention (and energy) into the sport of trials. Cross marketing into the non competition world of trail bike riding is also a place to look. As many have mentioned, most off road bikes (of all kinds) never enter a formal competition, so it stands to reason that if those folks were made aware of what trials is about, we might attract with our "warm fuzzies" . I too have been away from the trials community for many years. I rode actively in the 70's and didn't return to trials until a few years ago. Over the years I stayed active with numerous other forms of bike riding and racing and promoting (still do) but finally gave in to my "roots" and got back into trials. I read through our MOTA rule book recently. It contains a year by year history of the organization. The MOTA hosted several National rounds and other exhibitions that attracted world class riders in the 70's and early 80's. Our events use to have hundreds that signed up at every event. Along with many others who worked very hard was my childhood buddy. We both started riding trials at the same time, after a few years he stuck with trials and I jumped into the world of MX. In the MOTA history, the quote "human dynamo" is attached to Gary's name in the year that he co-promoted the first MOTA Indoor Trial and Exhibition and a National. My point is all about the "human dynamo", no matter who it is, where it is, or when it is is....I believe that it will take few more "human dynamo's" to move trials from where we are now. "He who rests on laurels, get's knocked on a*#" Keith

Paul, I always bring my trials bike to the Enduro, HS, and other "go fast" events. Always get a few requests to try it out too. Just think if we could get some dealers to bring trials bikes to more "go fast" events on a regular basis. I am trying to do just that with our own HS and E-Cross events this summer in MI. Just a question for other trials clubs; How many have a "dirt or trail bike" class in their regular trials format? How many sign up? Keith

Great thread Hensley! Cross over promotion is exactly what we need more of. I think the gas price figures into it when riders consider a long trip or a national. The top riders will make the trip, but the amateur rider and spectator count may suffer. LOcal trials events and perhaps Enduro cross may actually stand a better chance of gaining riders since they can do the whole thing in an easy day. The MOTA has two different two day trials events scheduled this year in an effort to help with the gas/driving costs. Those new trials bike owners you mentioned are potential trials riders once they see how simple and fun a day at a trials can be. The trick is getting them to go. I'm sure the "fear factor" is a big reason that many avoid competition. They see a picture of an expert doing a huge splatter and decide that they don't need to go cause the'll never do that! Once they see just how a beginner or novice line looks they might reconsider. We had lots of interest by trail bike riders last fall when we did a combination event (observed trials and an organized trail ride). We even picked up a few new riders for 2008 season. I am all for getting the word out there (to the Enduro, MX and Hare Scramble guys) Many kinda snicker at trials in it's pure form, so maybe the E-Cross idea is the bridge that might work. I will try to get a few threads going in some other groups, I know it's already begun in our D-14 Michigan area. For guys like you, Craig..how does this fuel affect your travel budget? As much as you guys travel do you suck it up or find another way to get some additional sponsor $ to cover the added fuel expense? Are you still thining of making the trip for any of our Enduro-cross Events? Keith

I to want to thank you Ishy for all the same reasons as D Sileo. Great topic! I have a saying that may apply here: "He who rests on laurels - gets knocked on a** "

Good luck Martina, I didn't realize that you'd gone back to Germany. Any plans to come back to the states in the future? Keith

So get over the high price crap and admit you are the tight A@@S, that sees no value in service because you assume a dealer is going to rip you off. Trials bikes arn't high, they are an example of low production custom motorcycle. Orange county choppers makes them to, starting at $80,000. But you will have to get on their waiting list. As an owner of numerous two wheel (and a few other motorized things) Trials bikes are without a doubt one of the most affordable bikes in the stable. They break less, and are competitive right out of the box. I too most always buy a recently used bike as opposed to brand new. On line purchases have treated me well, but due to a good local "garage" trials dealer I will buy from him as often as I can. In my opinion trials bikes are not out of proportion to the rising costy of any other machinery, and when combined with lower cost of competition (compared to Enduro, HS or MX or most other motorsports) Trials is a bargin! I am very active in the promotion end of the off road motorcycle world, and personally am invloved in the promotion of a minimum 2-3 events per season. We in the trials community miss opporitunities everyday to promote our sport. And that is where we should all throw in just a bit more time and effort. If we advertise to the "non-trials" community, our sport (and the dealers) will see growth. That is a bit of an oversimplification, but nonetheless, very true. My best (recent) example: I chaired an event in Oct 2007 known as the Fall Color Tour here in mid Michigan. This is a 2 day, non competitive trail ride open to off road bikes and families with kids of all ages. In addition, it is a dual sport event. This event on it's own attracts over 500 paid sign ups each fall. I decided to take it a couple of steps further in 2007 so it was co-promoted as an AMA National Dual Sport ride and a MOTA Observed Trials. After some political dancing to keep each group happy we pulled it off. The two day event attracted nearly 1000 bodies, (most on bikes) who were treated to catered food on the trail and BBQ in the pits. A kick-butt trials exhibition on Sat night as well as the trials competition on Sunday was eye candy for the non trials off road riders. Total success, almost nothing to complain about (except we had to empty the porta johns WAY more than we planned) But once again, an amazing opporitunity was missed by the trials community to promote the business side of our community. Our club (Bent Wheels Comp. Club) has numerous sponsors (Toyota is the biggest) who support our club as we support them in the promotion of their businesses. I tried to get several trials dealers to sponsor (small cash or gifts for give aways- to buy in) without success. Even RYP said no thanks. On the plus side we will have at least three new (off road) riders starting in trials locally as a result, and I'm guessing several more that have taken note of what those funny looking bikes are all about. This year we are doing an Endurocross series that is actively seeking trials guys to ride. If we all break out of our "trials world" to promote to other "motorcycle people", maybe our dealers could make a living at this business!

I know we are all busy, but if possible, please throw your 2008 Schedules on this forum. Should be easy to find if the title reads: "2008 Inuit Trials Assn, Alaska" or something like that.....

True indeed, about most all of us being in the same boat whan it comes to the rising cost of a new bike. Sure puts a damper on that urge to be on a new mount every season! I suppose the problem is the same for all motorcycle types though. There have been some really good points made on this topic, how can we make this great conversation help our sport? Are you listening importers? Is it time for some restructuring of dealership networks? I have some friends who recently became KTM dealers after many years of running a great accessory and aftermarket sales firm (on-line and storefront) . Their primary reason for doing this was to sell the KTM hardparts line. As a reasonably high volume operation, I'm sure they will move a bunch of bikes as well. In this case, it was a tough decesion (big $ money to buy in with minimum inventory and parts) but the KTM rules and regulations seem to be working well for a lot of dealers as well as KTM. I think that the small KTM dealer (similar to many trials bike dealers) may give way to larger dealers as KTM contimues to grow. Is that a bad thing or a good thing? With that said, my question is: Can the trials bike importers and manufacturers, (espescially the ones who make non-trials machines as well) follow some of the successful patterns set out by KTM over recent years. The new interest being generated by E-Cross is just one example of a golden opportunity. A recent local freestyle MX show (big show- national level) also had a trials exhibition. Wouldn't that have been a great place to have a display of trials bikes for all to sit on and see?????? The more I think of it, the list of potential opportunities just goes on and on.....

They say cross training is a proven method to becoming a better rider. Now I know how it's done!

I just had to throw in my two cents worth. I am not a bike dealer, but a lifelong trials, off road, and road rider. Also self employed my entire life as a nursery stock broker. Many nursery stock growers (at wholesale) are mom and pop type organizations, very similar to the "backyard garage dealer" of trials bikes and such. As I see it, the importer can choose to create an environment of "competitive chaos". Or to build an organized network with regional definitions and strict minimum requirements. The organized regional rep/dealer plan (at least in theory) should suppport better margins and thereby succuss for the rep/dealer. If this were done with "broker protected" online sales as well, it might work in today's changing market (online sales of everything) . On line sales could be credited to each rep/dealer. Online sales of bikes, parts and accessories could offer options that may include direct customer shipping. These online sales would include the rep/dealer in some manner. The key here is a structure that uses discipline and comittment by the importer as well as the rep/dealer. In my business we have large sized growers who have numerous brokers selling for them, with little protection of the customers who try to go around my back to the grower. In addition, we have customers that are called upon by more than one broker selling for the same grower (much confusion). On the other hand the small grower usually embraces me as a broker (he cannot afford to promote as I do) and the relationship is mutally beneficial. In the trials community, the small dealer is the norm, but there must be more discipline to create a protected environment for that dealer. Now the tough part, that dealer MUST remain comitted to a level of customer service that represents the manufacturer/importer in proper and business like manner. If taht is done, the money should follow (in the long run) In the past 2 years I have dealt with and know first hand of 3 trials bike and accessory "dealers" who no longer exist (as dealers) and one new one who is off to a great start. Each one worked hard, so why so much turn over? Just my thoughts.... Keith

Hey Biff, Who all is going down to Ocala? Joe (sr) mentioned that you guys were headed down there. Is Robert R going? I can't do anything that weekend, but am thinking of a long weekend sometine in March that will be for both off <mention of this company is not permitted on Trials Central. Please delete this post>. I have a buddy in NC who guides us around Brown MT area near Morganton, NC. (great rock & hilly terrain) Was thinking of hitting TTC after that. Joe Sr is up for that one, perhaps a few others as well. NO plan yet- just ideas. Any interest? Do you have a go fast bike too? Hey Sam, I sure wish I could make to your new event ground for the two in April- just way too busy that time year- no fun- just work. Will you always be doing your event in April? If it's after May I can make it. Keith

Here is our MICHIGAN & ONTARIO MOTA 2008 Schedule. The MOTA website is www.motatrials.org - check there for flyers, results and contact info. April 5&6 New Paris, IN Great new property and MOTA event - 2 day event- Must check this out! - New and challanging terrain May 4 Flint, MI Nice site, great for spectators, easy access - man made & natural (hilly) terrain June 1 Windsor, ONT Great natural site with water, river- all natural- very spectator friendly- short walk to most sections June 8 Metamora, MI Large site, rocks, hills, even some great man made obstacles- Event trail is long and beautiful to ride June 22 Whitmore Lake, MI Good challanging site, easy access from freeway, good spectator site July 13 Vermontville, MI Large site, rocks, nice natural terrain & top notch made obstacles as well, did I mention ROCKS? August 2&3 Rose City, MI Large new site- 2 day event with on site camping, food, water, toilets, hotels adjoining property- ride your bike to your room. Water, rocks, big uphills, some very challanging BIG stuff too, lots of new stuff! Same site as Enduro-cross series - 2.5 hrs north of detroit area- exit 202 off I-75 August 17 Windsor, ONT One of our oldest sites, water, river- all natural- very challanging if it rains! September 7 Metamora, MI Go to this one just for the trail between sections- exceptional natural terrain, very good challange! September 28 Whitmore Lake, MI Interesting location that is good for new riders as well the experts, nice mix of obstacles October 5 Flint, MI Close to Flint, easy site for those on foot, very challanging man made obstacles are part of this one October 19 Vermontville, MI S. W of Lansing in southern- mid michigan- great site- with long fun event trail - worth the drive!!! NEW 2008! ENDURO-CROSS SERIES For more info go to: www.bentwheels.com June 7 (Saturday) Rose City, MI Great for trials and off road bikes- classes for riders of all skill levels - natural and man made obstacles. Afternoon program, run in conjunction with D-14 Hare Scrambles Race on Sun June 8 on the same site. July 9 (Wed) Rose City, MI Run in conjunction with Ogemaw bike week events- part of a week long series that includes Hillclimb, Supermoto, Flat Track, and Motocross races along with a H.O.G. Rally - Afternoon program August 23 (Saturday) Rose City, MI Last event of a 3 race series, afternoon program, run in conjunction with a D-14 Hare Scrambles in nearby Gladwin, MI on Sunday Aug 24. Run what ya brung kind of event- perfect for trials bikes- show those "hot shoe" off road guys how it's really done!

THANKS ANDY! Really appreciate it!

Thanks all for the resonses. Andy, how about it, could you create spot under Announcements (USA) for "Upcoming Events" ? If this goes well enough, then perhaps the calended and customizable front page you suggested. (GREAT IDEA!) Keep watching everyone, and post your thoughts.. Would you utilize this type of posting? Keith

Please chime in everyone. Let's hear from anyone who has something to say about the idea of having a USA events calender, or even a custom front page for USA users. Thany you Andy for the consideration. Keith

I have seen some occassional posts with event info from you Craig, as well a few others over time. Althogh that's great, it would be great to have a central point to go to for all (or at least most) US events. It sure would be a ton of work for you Andy. And since we really don't have any assuarance as to how well (or much) it would be used, maybe a start would be to place another "topic" or heading under the Announcements Category under US Trials and see how much acitivity we see. Then you can be the judge as to whether or not you go forward with a calender or not. A calender would be great, as it is a single location where a summarized version of all events would accessable. Lot's of clubs have websites, but not many show other club and organizer events. Just my thoughts.... Hey Jim, It sure is funny to see the word "Beta" under your bike description. (Isn't "beta" a fish?) Keith

Did I miss something? I haven't seen a place in Trials Central for posting US events and results. Just wondering if there is enough interest to create a separate calender or topic for US based clubs and organizations to post events and results?

The whiners and complainers have gotten their way...but only in this round. If enough riders show up and enter on trials bikes, the promoters will do as we (the trials guys) demand. We need to be a significant part of the equation though. I suppose the thinking is still that trials riders are just a few renegades in a world of "dirt bikes". I think that the advantage and talent of the trials riders has gotten the attention of the other riders and promoters. Let's show up in numbers to ride and qualify and see what happens then. Even better- if trials riders can enter both classes and kick butt on TWO sides of the fence, that will get their attention. On the tires, I suppose it's best to run one style of tire, perhaps trials tires will be allowed as the ONLY tire in the future, as it does work best in those conditions. I must admit it's only a dream for me as I will not be able to qualify at that level, but I will continue to support the national series as well as the new sport on a local level. Remember our three race E-cross series in MI this summer! (bring those trials bikes!) Keith A. Another thought as I re-read my post... Look at what the sport of road motorcyling is doing right now. For years it was about going faster and jumping higher. The new trend is toward technical and difficult riding (E- Cross, Last Man Standing, etc) Is this an opportunity for the trials community???

My experience with the AMA is that if you have a land use issue, contact them with the details. I have first hand experience of their invlovement on a couple of issues here in MI. As it goes with anything, the squeeky wheel gets the attention, so don't expect much from just one letter or e-mail. The new format for the AMA seems to be less on the promotion side and more legal and political representation. Hopefully that will prove to be a good thing for us all. As far as the BRC it sure seems like they are more rooted in the west than in the east, but that too is most likely a result of their active members living for most part in the west. If there are issues in the east that may benefit by the invlovement of the BRC perhaps an offer to spearhead the effort for the BRC could be an option. Here in MI we (as a tax paying special interest group) having been working very diligently on an issue (bill #4323) that will allow unlicensed ORV's and bikes to legally ride on secondary roads in all counties in MI. At this point the bill passed the house with a 171-0 yes vote, and it is being voted on soon by the senate. 6 counties in MI have already passes ordinaces that allow this use already, but this legilation really paves the way for other counties to do the same. What a great thing for the off road community. IMagine that- riding your trials bike- legally- down the road from one property to another. This effort has been assisted by the AMA (not the BRC) and is a great example of just how effective we can be if organized in numbers... Afterall, that is what the "greens" do to stop us from riding.

Ahhh yes, getting married- again. Ben there- done that , as a matter of fact I am still doing that. My first (23 yrs) said of course it was ok to ride and do club things blah- blah- blah. But it was always an ordeal (before and after) once you really decided to go riding, or to a meeting, or work an event...there is a trend here - I think the common thread is motorcycle! So after much thought, I did it agian, she even rides off road. Trying to get her into trials, but ever since she looped out the Sherco, she is a bit "trials shy". A far as riding, it's mostly a good thing, but that has it's moments too. I suppose I might overdo it sometimes (trials, enduro, HS, and fun rides)) but it is all about being who you are, and letting her be who she is. Just try to end up on the same page! Biff- If she is into what you are- really. That's a rare find. Keep her! Have I met her at any of last years events?