john collins Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 The fact that the ACU Trials Forum is cancelled through lack of attendance is more than a little disappointing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 some fair points well put, even in the heat of the moment... . i guess we should all take a look in the mirror before we pick on the easy targets.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 I absolutely back John 100% in his comments. You were all given the opportunity to attend this forum and air your views. The fact it has been cancelled due to a lack of interest, in my opinion, clearly shows the level of complacency that exists within Trials in the UK. How many of you have ever met John? I have and, despite the "ACU are s***" mentality that is more than prevalent, if you ever sat down and actually talked to the guy about Trials in the UK as I have done, you'd realise he's a helluva lot more interested than you may think. If he weren't interested in Trials and, as was inferred, totally interested in road racing, why would he spend so much time compiling a response to the open forum being cancelled? Why would he even bother posting here? If he genuinelly wasn't interested then he wouldn't have taken the time to compose what is an extensive reply. Stop and think about it. He is on your side - you just have to realise that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 John you are right, I could and should have found time to attend, I have no excuse, it's all too easy to think someone else will attend and cover the items which concern me and a number....... infact all, of the issues you mention are important to the trials club I'm in. IF, we get another chance I won't make the same mistake in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybaines Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 ... this is my personal view so just take it as that.... I have met John and it is obvious from previous posts and the one above that he really cares about the state of the UK and world trials scene. I may not have been a supporter of everything the ACU has done but we have to have a governing body, there is no way trials or any motorcycle sport would have lasted as long as it has without them.... I assisted in the running of an ACU club for 5 years in the south east, writing the newsletter, attending most of the committee meetings and helping to set out many club and centre trials in those years. But as time has moved on and people have many other things to occupy their time and money these days les and less will want to be that involved they will travel half way up the country to sit in a meeting like that... and anyway, it's easier to type stuff on here from anywhere in the world and as John will know it is easier to sling mud when you are faceless!! .. My personnel feelings are that an online get together would be better attended. Look how many get on here every night, almost the only common interest we have is the sport of trials. I know it is taking up more of someones time in the ACU but if we had an ACU trials forum, whether it be on here or on the ACU website, that questions or views could be aired and if possible answered ... and even suggestions by the trials commitee tested out... i think there will be constructive input. The one thing it would need is perhaps some way of either using your real names or perhaps your ACU licence number being your sign in details.... just to stop the people who want to be abusive but hide behind their PC's. Now i have joined an ACU club for the first time in nearly 10 years i will even get a licence myself soon!!! Bloody hell whos that then? after the abuse you gave me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 I absolutely back John 100% in his comments. You were all given the opportunity to attend this forum and air your views. The fact it has been cancelled due to a lack of interest, in my opinion, clearly shows the level of complacency that exists within Trials in the UK. But you will give that daft bugger from the USA free reign to post the same old NATC ***** day after day, even his own forum to do it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 But you will give that daft bugger from the USA free reign to post the same old NATC ***** day after day, even his own forum to do it in. I don't see anybody from the NATC standing up to fight their corner. If I did and could potentialy see valid reason to disallow things as they stand then I would. I guess we're lucky, though some may not realise it, in having John as a voice for the Trials community who is prepared to stand up, face the lions den of these forums and be accountable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 (edited) I've never been involved at any level in trials apart from doing my little bit for the club but I can vouch for John's frustrations. For the last 9 years solid I've been involved at various level in Ice Hockey. Team Manager, Fixtures secretary, Club Chairman, Team Coach at club (all junior age groups), conference, Scotland, and GB. I've worked with the SIHA closely in that time and know exactly the frustrations John has written. I've spent years being dragged through employment tribunals, equal opportunities councils, Racial equality councils, Local council ombudsman, hauled in front of Sportscotland, MSPs you name itbecause one a*** thinks he's bigger than the club/sport etc. I've been there all for the love of a sport. I've been on the expensive overseas trips, to the expensive hotels (sleeping bag on a school floor next to the rink in Sweden), I've had the free, fancy national team jacket that cost me a donation of Edited September 8, 2006 by Slapshot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 AMEN to that !!! i didn't go because we are a busy (circa 25+ events per year) and we do things besides trials (MX & Enduro). while i have several points of contention with the TEC I'll only list two below 1) election - we all know the process is deeply floored. first and foremost in our end of the world the trials spectrum is separate form the enduro as it is from MX or Grass Track, thus why should we have a committee that trys to cover both? especially when trials is in every centre and enduro is in many. thus for elections - when two well known men are up for ***re-election*** - ACU election only see real change when someone stands down as any lame duck will be re-elected because they are "known". i don't see how any new well qualified candidate can stand and canvas all 20+ centres to secure election (I'm speaking in the theoretical sense here, rather than about any individual). more specifically why is there no one from one of the most active centres (my one) on the TEC ??? - we run actively in both fields (possible the largest centre) yet we have no say in decision making (an issue is about to arise re enduros and ages). 2) observation rules. i appreciate why we need the simplicity of only two type of observing rules but fundamentally in the longer term i believe this position is untenable. if people want to run a trial where riders can bunny hop, why not? my club took much umbrage (they are a bunch of obstinate MX'ers who don't know very much about the kind of trials talked about here) when your recent memo stating that we must use A or B only. in our LDTs (and other clubs) a variety of ideas have been used that aren't TSR 22 A or B - the world didn't fall down and i don't know what the fuss is about. fundamentally we (the ACU) are here to facilitate motorcycle sport (ie bums on seats) not to hinder it - people will just say f*** that and go run AMCA/ORPA and we'll be in a worse position than we are in know just two abstract points , the proposed agenda doesn't really interest me as its not my end of trials and as above i was otherwise preoccupied. i do accept your very valid slagging off of the two gents who made wild unsupported statements (i do believe i countered one of them at length!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 .. My personnel feelings are that an online get together would be better attended. Look how many get on here every night, almost the only common interest we have is the sport of trials. I know it is taking up more of someones time in the ACU but if we had an ACU trials forum, whether it be on here or on the ACU website, that questions or views could be aired and if possible answered ... and even suggestions by the trials commitee tested out... i think there will be constructive input. The one thing it would need is perhaps some way of either using your real names or perhaps your ACU licence number being your sign in details.... just to stop the people who want to be abusive but hide behind their PC's. Now i have joined an ACU club for the first time in nearly 10 years i will even get a licence myself soon!!! I have been known to speak out against the ACU a few times but its never against the people, just the organisation. Since I got back into trials and like some other people I know, I've spent a fair share of my spare time ( and considerable sums of money) doing work for the benefit of others in trials but I do it by choice because I enjoy doing it so no complaints however, If I have a gripe then I shouldn't be made to feel bad about expressing a view as long as its not a personal attack. I don’t hide behind a name, I stand up and say what I feel and if somebody doesn’t like it then its plain tough. Express your view and then let’s get a debate going. I tend to post emotive topics just to do that. To pull people into debates and have serious discussions on subjects I'm passionate about, like the future of Youth Trials for instance. This leads nicely into the post Heath made above. I feel very strongly that the ACU does not communicate well with its members - The ACU has its website and the publication we get but what is lacking is direct engagement. Heaths suggestion would solve that I believe. If the ACU management and a team of selective TC site members who run clubs (there’s a few of us on here) and some responsible trials riders who just participate in the sport were a member of a discreet forum either hosted on this website, the ACU’s website or another ( I would build one for free if it required it). We could get involved in active debate and discussion and have the possibility of contributing to the future of trials at our convenience all year round. I do have experience with this system as I was involved in a similar development forum with EA Games in the development of its WW2 Medal of Honor franchise. It worked very well and was extremely constructive. Up till now someone has had a rant, John comes on and replys defending the ACU and then the cycle continues. This proposal would get us out of this cycle and start to make some progress I believe. What do you say to this John? IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 .. My personnel feelings are that an online get together would be better attended. Look how many get on here every night, almost the only common interest we have is the sport of trials. I know it is taking up more of someones time in the ACU but if we had an ACU trials forum, whether it be on here or on the ACU website, that questions or views could be aired and if possible answered ... and even suggestions by the trials commitee tested out... i think there will be constructive input. The one thing it would need is perhaps some way of either using your real names or perhaps your ACU licence number being your sign in details.... just to stop the people who want to be abusive but hide behind their PC's. Now i have joined an ACU club for the first time in nearly 10 years i will even get a licence myself soon!!! I have been known to speak out against the ACU a few times but its never against the people, just the organisation. Since I got back into trials and like some other people I know, I've spent a fair share of my spare time ( and considerable sums of money) doing work for the benefit of others in trials but I do it by choice because I enjoy doing it so no complaints however, If I have a gripe then I shouldn't be made to feel bad about expressing a view as long as its not a personal attack. I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Of course it would be better if all the interested parties could meet up in person but as it seems WE are unable/unwilling to do this perhaps a different solution might help. The problem with a formal meeting like proposed is that you need to prepare fully and take all relevant info with you to be a viable contributor. On here you can read a post, go away and think/research about your reply in your own time before you post it and its likely to be more constructive and relevant. There would be a considerable benefit if it was hosted on this site as we all come on here anyway and have accounts already set up. A seperate forum takes just a few moments to set up as well and it could be up and running in no time. I haven't spoke to Andy about it but I am sure he would not object and would welcome the sites participation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 problem sorted, run the acu trials forum on line maybe over a 4 week period if andy could sort it on trials central it would be the best trials forum the acu ever had, with only your real names used some people would realy have to put some thought into what they want to say,and they would have the time to do it. just an simple idea from some one who would have liked to have attended,and would definitely welcome a on line debate. ps well said john you can now come down off the ceiling ( JOKE ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 (edited) excellent idea to get people involved , if the mountain wont move..... move closer to the mountain, any dialogue has to be better than no dialogue, i cant belive that any club secretary/ interested party would not have access to the internet surely if the forum was opened for 28 days and had a number of points for discussion under seperate headings and people used their licence numbers for identification and validation of interest the ACU could come away with a number of ideas/propasals that they could take away and even have interested parties vote on accepting one principle over another. COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY, LET THE ACU SHOW THAT IT CAN EMBRACE THE NEW OPPORTUNITES AND THAT WE DONT ALL HAVE TO GIVE UP A SATURDAY MORNING TO MEET IN A HOTEL FOYER TO DECIDE /DISCUSS SOMETHING. Edited September 9, 2006 by totalshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 I'm at my folks for the weekend. I'll speak to John when I'm back and take things from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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