marky g Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Bikespace, I thought you were nearer 50!! You a very funny guy. I kill you last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 The problem is there are no national gradings, i.e you can be an expert in say the cheshire centre, come to a yorkshire trial, you are expected to ride the experts course, which is by far too much for those centre riders, a good example of this is Toby eyre, he is one of the best riders in his centre, he often comes to ride in richmond trials, the hard course is way beyond him, he just likes to have a good ride around, not get hurt and have a bag full of cleans on the green or clubmen course, by rights he should be riding the hard course in all trials, but it does nobody any favours making them ride something they dont feel comfortable with. there will always be someone winging that there are people riding the wrong course but, it should make you try harder to beat a better rider. what the we need is a national points scoring system, for example the british championship riders should be the top, Jarvis no.1 right through to no.55, who was last in the experts championship. The next level could be the novogar series, which should exclude all riders who have scored championship points, this then opens the novagar series to riders who are not capeable of the hop skip and jump in the championship rounds, by bringing trials back to the majority. The points could be awarded to the top 30 or so riders. These trials are pretty straight forward, you dont need to be able to hop and bounce, just straight forward sections where 10-15 people can win a round. Anyone any ideas???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subira Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 There's a lot of similarity with the British Champs thread here. Just wanted to draw your attention to the League system that our other national pastime uses. OK - so there's the Premiership, Leagues 1 -3 and a whole host of feeder divisions. The theory is that the local team that play on the common, could progress all the way to the PFL. So why can't trials do the same. All Centre's have their championships, so if you finish in the top 10 then you can go to Novogar, top ten there in to British Expert, on to Masters then on to Champs. Small problem is those on a meteoric rise to the top (like me ) you want them into the highest level championship that they are capable of riding ASAP - but then the ACU could have a number of Wildcard places for Academy and worthy cases. Other flaw is those that don't support the centre champs, mainly due to the events (problem in the South Midlands). On the Inter thing we have a strange problem in the SMC, there's a whole bunch of 'nearly there' riders who can beat Experts but can get promoted because only the Champ goes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 There is lack of consistancy throughout the centres, an intermediate in one centre in not an intermediate in another, they maybe the same on paper, but rider skill can be worlds apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Its been about 18 years since I rode in Yorkshire (all my youth). I ride Expert in Cheshire and North Wales (admittedly towards the lower end), but I reckon I could probably lose a limb or two riding Expert in Yorkshire. I'm going to have a trip up home some time, I'll feel like I'm cheating riding anything other than Expert, but I wouldn't belong in the expert class at all. It's a little awkward to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 we have expert, inter and novice at centre level but at combine level we also have expert-B for those "trapped" people. dunno if such a national system would work as you could be really good down south and yet not have ridden any/many rocks while all you up north ride is rocks rabie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbikedude Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 think your'e bad down south? - in Scotland a Novice is someone who hasn't ridden a national trial, and an expert is someone who has ridden a few national trials, a Non-expert is anyone inbetween- its a farce! it means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 rabie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulltaco Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) No need to put down someone not quite as articulate as yourself, Big John. I suspect fatbikedude refers to trialscots' comment that in scotland there is no standardised system of upgrading laid down by the SACU for every club to use. This does mean, as trialscot suggests, that the potential for upgrading ( or retaining Expert status) in scotland depends on the awards listed by promoting clubs in their supplementary regs. Since some clubs still list first class awards to the top 15% of finishers, some only list a winner and runner up and some list no awards at all, upgrading in scotland is a hit or miss affair. Add to this the fact that most scottish trials have at least two routes and that there appears to be nothing in the SACU regulations about who rides what to get grading credits (again it seems to be left to individual clubs to decide this) and the situation does become a little ridiculous. I had a long conversation recently with a guy who had checked things out and he reckoned that a novice could win a championship trial and not be upgraded from novice if the club had decided to give no awards, while a non expert winning a "best club member" award in 20th place in another trial could get a grading credit towards expert status. I don't know if what I was told is correct but if it is, it must be a powerful argument for the introduction of a proper system of upgrading in scotland. As someone above said, at least the Yorkshire lads know what they are aiming at when they enter a trial, if they are looking for upgrading. Edited March 5, 2004 by bulltaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) No need to put down someone not quite as articulate as yourself, Big John. I suspect fatbikedude refers to trialscots' comment that in scotland there is no standardised system of upgrading laid down by the SACU for every club to use. This does mean, as trialscot suggests, that the potential for upgrading ( or retaining Expert status) in scotland depends on the awards listed by promoting clubs in their supplementary regs. Since some clubs still list first class awards to the top 15% of finishers, some only list a winner and runner up and some list no awards at all, upgrading in scotland is a hit or miss affair. Add to this the fact that most scottish trials have at least two routes and that there appears to be nothing in the SACU regulations about who rides what to get grading credits (again it seems to be left to individual clubs to decide this) and the situation does become a little ridiculous. I had a long conversation recently with a guy who had checked things out and he reckoned that a novice could win a championship trial and not be upgraded from novice if the club had decided to give no awards, while a non expert winning a "best club member" award in 20th place in another trial could get a grading credit towards expert status. I don't know if what I was told is correct but if it is, it must be a powerful argument for the introduction of a proper system of upgrading in scotland. As someone above said, at least the Yorkshire lads know what they are aiming at when they enter a trial, if they are looking for upgrading. I don't think that Big John was putting him down at all ! He made a valid point (with a smiley) against Fatbikedude's statement. No mention was made about articulation/grammar/spelling etc. Edited March 5, 2004 by kinell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Once there were three classes and one line, trials would have a mixture of sections from easy to hard, and some trials were set for the better riders and some for the lesser ability riders. Then some dude thought it would be a good idea to add choice! another line, which in affect added more classes, but I notice a lot more whining now then back then, the truth is! instead of striving to improve it's easier to whine and get thing changed to make up for our lack of ability. Three classes are enough if the events are set for the majority of riders riding it, bigger the event tougher the sections from club to world-round, no one would dare to make something simple though, and what will happen in the future, is more classes and lines will be added until it will dilute the sport into a farce and many classes will only have one or two riders, like age classes every five years. The U.S. can boast of a championship of 15 individual classes, but since they moved from a championship when only a few classes competed they have never had anyone actively competing in world championship trials. To me it looks like trials in the UK is heading the same way. I think we are getting soft and lazy Edited March 5, 2004 by ishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbikedude Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 (edited) Personally, I don't think guys like Gavin Johnston (Expert) and 8 times Scottish Champion would agree with the statement above somehow! you're missing the point BJ I am first to suggest that Gavin Johnston and about 6 other riders in Scotland deserve to be Experts - my point is that I know many other riders that are made up to expert status that hardly ever ride an A route - and NEVER ride a championship trial. How can someone who has never ridden a Scottish Championship trial (A route) justifiably be made up to an expert? What I suggest is that the top 10 in the Scottish championship be made experts, - If you do not retain a top 10 position in the championship within 3 years you are downgraded. I would be first in the queue to give up my expert status for a decent grading system. another thing while i'm on a roll - we used to get a list of experts sent to us with our licences but that seems to have stopped - any ideas why? Edited March 7, 2004 by fatbikedude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehill Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 good point FBD - believe it or not I am graded as an expert - when you watch me you'll wonder why - and for the likes of Gavin to be graded the same as me makes a joke of the whole system - I'm with FBD on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idmcc_sec Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 believe it or not I am graded as an expert - when you watch me you'll wonder why - and for the likes of Gavin to be graded the same as me makes a joke of the whole system From the SACU regs (which you got a copy of when you got your licence) "EXPERTS - May apply to the Trials Committee for downgrading at any time" It's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehill Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 "EXPERTS - May apply to the Trials Committee for downgrading at any time" not really the point - i was speaking to a rider that was made up to expert last year and instantly downgraded himself - he was riding the B route on Sunday ! (the easiest trial i think i have ever been to) its the system that needs changed - it shouldnt be up to riders to downgrade themselves as soon as they are made up; as i said before - makes a joke of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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