zippy Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I got to thinking the other day, one of those rare occurrences, about the rear suspension. My question is this: If the shock is mounted direct to the swing arm (Scorpa, Beta) is the response faster? This is my line of logic: The links or dogbones need to move through its own pivot arc before compressing the shock resulting in "squish" of S amount. The direct mount begins "squish" immediately resulting in "squish" of S + a little more. Therefore the S + a little more will have more stored energy in less time. Or I am completely daft. (which is a real possibility) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 It's simply a question of ratios, the time taken is the same. If you shorten your final drive chain by a link, does the wheel start to move slightly sooner than before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted January 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 OK so the time it takes is the same, Different way of thinking: with the bottom mounting point being lower with links than without does that mean that the shock does not get the same "squish" for the same distance traveled by the rear wheel? I guess I am trying to understand the benefits of links or no links on the rear suspension. Maybe that should have been my original question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie stokes Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 scorpa 3 said ''It's simply a question of ratios, the time taken is the same. If you shorten your final drive chain by a link, does the wheel start to move slightly sooner than before?'' i no this might soun like i am utterly stupid but does it ??or not ?? i have been think obout this for 30 mins now and still can't work it out. hope some one will tell me the awnser. cheers. jamie stokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellonmelug Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 When the first mono trials bike came out (yamaha TY250 ) it was explained to me that the purpose of the link was to create a rising rate of compression . ie as the rear wheel moved further up through its range of ttravel the more movement was created on the shocker. This gave the effect that the first few inches of travel at the back wheel where softly sprung but became much stiffer as the wheel was subjected to higher loads . The TY 250 made every other bike obsolete almost over night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Thanks, Fellonmelug that sounds like a plausible reason for the links. So does this mean that the linked suspension will "smooth out" those annoying bouncy rocks better? And the linkless suspension would have a constant rate of compression resulting in more bounce and better rear wheel hop? Or am I still clueless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 They have to do the "rising rate" within the shock on the linkless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellonmelug Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 The guys at Beta will probly tell us that a link is not nescacery but allm the other manufacturers use them , so i think i will go with the majority and say that the linked system will do a better job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Thanks for the help and opinions I still gonna ride my 2000 sherco 2.9, well if you wanna call what I do riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Well, not all the other manufacturers use links, Scorpa seem to get on alright with a direct link. I think that not having a link just results in a different feel. I love the way my beta feels on the back end. One advantage of using a linkage system on a trials bike is that it frees up a lot of room since the shock can be mounted lower. If you look on a beta the shock couldn't be mounted much higher, and Betas have a relatively high 'seat'. As for springs getting stiffer the more you press them, this is the same with all springs. Having links does mean that it happens more quickly, but so does mounting the shock as far back as is possible so there is more travel overall. Also if you notice on the beta the shock is mounted slightly off vertical so to start with the spring is easier to compress, but when the swinging arm and spring are perpendicular there is a greater rate of compression. Have I ranted for ages about something I don't really know all that much about? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seandellear Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 That made a whole lot of sense to me! I have found this topic very interesting which is surprising as it requires thinking which is something I don't do very often out of school! So thanks everyone! cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad4it Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 The progressive action on link suspension is done in the action of the linkages as said on linkless system it is done internally in the shock which does make them a lot more expensive to make. The pro side to linkless suspension really is in the ease of maintenance no bearings to seize up or wear out and nothig to get caught on the rocks and damage like they do on the montesa's always stretching and cracking them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybaines Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 But when you pick up a rock it can still have a terrible ending! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted January 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 I don't think links would have saved that one. That was one expensive rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybaines Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 I don't think links would have saved that one. That was one expensive rock. Sure was luckily it wasn`t mine Although on the same day I had damages too about the same value Back too the Linkage thingy it`s surely down too rider preferance? I mean I love the way the Beta rides and the fact it has less space for mud too get into is an ultimate bonus when you come too cleaning you bike. I think if you asked this question say 15-20 years ago or whenever the linkage system first came out there would be no doubt the linkage system would be much better than any shock mounted direct, but lets face it nowadays the technolodgy available they are going too be pretty close in performance? it`s all down too how you like the feel of each bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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