andy m Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 The Seeley needs some shocks. I saw an old thread on the subject where folk were singing the praises for Falcons. I was reading in the Classic dirtbike mag today NJB now do a Trikshock. There is a tenner difference between the two. The bloke at Falcon builds em to order depending on your weight etc and can make em up using a MX piston which makes the bike feel more like a mono apparently. Any thoughts ??? Thanks in advance PS Its the steel Falcons I am considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Dont know if it's relevant but most people i know who have fitted Falcons the seals have gone within 12 months. Then again they are rebuildable Then of course there are the Rock Shox. This debate just goes on and on. All depends on personal preference and Bling factor. Noticed at the Classic show Mr Miller was showing the new alloy Betors @ around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcra Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Noticed at the Classic show Mr Miller was showing the new alloy Betors @ around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honda pants Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 I have a pair of alloy bodied Rockshocks on both my Seeley and TLR 250 No Competion Superb and reliable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted February 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Thanks Malcra, I will be on the 125 Scorpa on Sunday. The Seeley will be out later in the year. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitley Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) Bist I think you get for what you pay for in anything theses days. Got a set of falcons on the majesty and not yet had any problems yet They give a plush ride just like my yam pinky Had falcons on my last 3 bikes, no problems. Had a quick spin on a seeley yesterday, it had NJBs on, it felt like riding a Rigid! Rock shocks were big in the early 80s, with a lot of stars of the time using them, but i have not yet spoke to anyone using them at the moment, but i bet they aint like NJB rigid shocks. I think the Rock shocks were similar in price to the Falcons, as i said you get for what you pay lu.. Edited February 19, 2007 by pitley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) Fact is this. The rebuilable makes are ALL as good as each other IF they are set up properly. If they don't work as you like when you get them the damping can be altered by the shimming inside and/or oil weight. Obviously it it is better if they work correctly when you get them as you don't want to be messing with them, just fit and ride. As an illustration I had a pair of Falcons for my Seeley which worked as I wanted from the box but I put them on my BSA which was used more and needed shocks and they are the same length and angle as the Seeley. They work very well on the BSA. When funds allowed I got some more for the Seeley, exactly the same order as before. These don't work. Spring rate is too soft and damping may be too hard, difficult to tell untill the spring rate is corrected. How can this be, two identical orders for the same bike, one works the other doesn't.... It's not the end of the world and can be corrected, just a nuisance. BUT, if I was a customer who had only bought one pair of shocks, that being the second pair, what do you think my recommendation to others would be - don't buy Falcons, they're no good - which obviously isn't true. Had I bought only the other pair I would be singing their praises. See what I mean, people will recommend on their own experiences and from what they expect from the shocks. Hence my opening line. Rockshocks - again different opinions. I know people who have them and are very satisfied. I have a pair that don't work the way I want as again the spring rate is too soft. Until that is corrected I can't tell if the damping is right. So again, if I didn't understand what makes the shock work I could be deterring people from buying Rockshocks as my experience is that they are cr*p. Again, this would be wrong as they aren't, it's just the set up of that particular pair and I knew the springs would probably be too soft when I bought them. Higher rated ones are available shortly. In terms of alloy or steel bodies, it isn't going to make the slightest bit of noticeable difference to the way the bike rides. It will save a bit of weight but so what, it means nothing in reality. As Malcra has said, the biggest gain would be for us to lose weight, not the bikes... Alloy shocks definitely look nicer though. I've a mate with Betors on a 72 Bultaco and they work reasonably well and another with them fitted to a 240 Fantic. They work well enough but are a bit soft as the bike came from someone considerably lighter. The action seems good though. As far as I know they aren't rebuildable so obviously, with these units you are stuck with what you get as there is no way of altering the damping characteristics, only spring rate. So pot luck if they work as you want when you get them. If I were you and funds permit, I would go for a rebuildable pair as at least they can be tuned if they don't work as you like from the box. As for as which brand - personal choice. Forgot to mention - one thing to consider is that the Rockshocks are far easier to service at home due to the way they are put together. The top/cap unscrews unlike Falcons and there are no circlips to fight with. They were designed with this in mind as other shocks, especially old style original Rockshocks can put up one hell of a fight when trying to remove the cap from the body and with circlip removal... Edited February 19, 2007 by Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 I would stay away from any shock that is is just oil based............Gas /Oil shocks will give you the response you need for todays twinshock sections, oil needs time to transfer from top to bottom, the gas is there to give the shock its initial impulsion/reaction then as stated you get what you pay for............If you have ever tried releaseing the gas and all the oil shoots out you will know what I mean.................and I think I know what I am talking about..............stu at bps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Look up the BPS website and have a look at the shocks on there. They are not an established well know brand yet..... BUt, many good twinshock and pre 65 riders in France and Spain use them, with only good reports filtering back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Steel bodies do not contaminate the oil as badly as alloy ones do when the anodizing wears off. They are also more tempreture stable. (It is interesting to note that Bruno Cammozi used steel in preference to alloy rear shock on his works Gas Gas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatgearyouusing Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Some interesting stuff on here.Ive just had Falcons on my bike after reading previous posts on here and Im not too impressed at all.They are far too hard and have little damping or rebound on them.I was about to say that they were rubbish until I read Woody's post.Perhaps they're just not set up right.Only problem now is how to get them set up right for me - I expected them to be ready from the box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Did you buy them new, and did they ask you how heavy you are with all your gear on ? Apparently they have nothing on the shelf, it is all made to individual riders weights etc. Also for an extra tenner plus the chancellors cut they can set them up to ride like a mono, they have an MX piston in I think ? If you had them from a mate or got the weight thing wrong they will not work as they should. (Apparently??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatgearyouusing Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Got them new.I had the spring set up for a certain weight.For various reasons I am now a stone heavier .If this is the reason my apologies to Falcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Let me tell it like it is.......... a bike set up right is the bike that (please try this experience)...................... 'hold handle bars in right hand fixed to throtle standing (thus keeping your bike vertical) with left hand free push seat (front of seat) or middle of bike in downward position, movement of forks and shocks should be of same', if so you have a twinshock for todays twinshock trials.................IF NOT THINK AGAIN If part one of this experience goes well and is as described/prefered then move on to mounting your machine and make the mods to your shocks to allow for lbs won or lost down at the old pull and push.................. ha! gota keep em seperated................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 A stone in weight isn't going to make any difference to the shock performance. My opinion only, but too much is made of weight issues of all types. 3 or 4 stones difference and yes, you'll probably notice but not one. If you bought them new they should be under 6 months guarantee I think in which case if they don't work as requested you should be able to send them back and have them altered free of charge. Phone them and ask. To do yourself they are a pain to dismantle and you'd need to be able to refill with 90psi nitrogen which not many people are able to do at home.... Altering the damping is achieved by adjusting the shimming either side of the piston to increase or decrease the oil flow to allow the damper rod to move quicker or slower through the oil. Basic stuff in theory but difficult to judge how much adjustment is required without the experience of having done it before. A few years ago I took my bike down to Falcon to get them set up as that way I could try the bike and make sure they worked rather than trusting to luck that they would come back correct if I sent them by post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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