Week 15 - Too Tough To Tackle?

[old trials fanatic]

You know after reading all the posts and having a think perhaps it's not the Trial thats too hard but that some of the entry have to re evaluate themselves?

When you look back at some of the old photos of the Scottish and the bikes the men rode then you realise how much the sections have changed. Then again so have the bikes. In that respect the Scottish is no different to any other Trial wether it be a Club Trial or a National.

Most of the people, me included, who moan about the severity of a Trial are just looking for a good day out on the bike without hurting themself or damaging the bike / looking a prat. Nowt wrong in that and that is why the majourity of Trials nowadays have more than one route.

BUT THATS NOT WHAT THE SCOTTISH IS ABOUT.

It's a one off event. One, perhaps the only one, of it's kind left.

We all have 51 other weeks a year to have a good ride maybe we should leave the Scottish to the creme de la creme and stop deluding ourselves ?

Now saying that there is obviously a desire for a similar event for "Clubmen" more along the lines of the scottish event of old. Look how the Pre65 event grew from a minor support event to an event in it's own right.

I know it's easy to spout on from the comfort of my old rocking chair but it's nice to dream about an event for twinshocks and over 40's in those beautiful Scottish surroundings.

Did hear about Big John organising something along those lines?

Well you never know. Must have a chat with him over a beer or two this weekend

Trials Centrals dynamic duo do Spain "Bultacos Rule" oooh err

[mcd]

EPIC

What a fantastic week!

Organisation difficult but first class.

450 entries!

Observors did a good job.

Course must have been well laid out to tackle such a wide field. Constant changing weather must be a night mare ( Lay out today ride tomorrow and even then it will vary for water levels all day).

It surely cant be made easier!! how many in the ballot then!

When you finnish it should have been EPIC. To finnish should be very tough not just a jaunt round Scotland for a lucky few which no longer attracts the top riders.

It should remain an endurance trial. Why would everybody give up all thier time and effort for a second class event.

If anybody has any problems with the observors will they be at the front of the line for a job next year. (wingers normally want everything but are slow to put in the graft!!)

I have ridden and I have worked the week I hope to do both again.(and maybe again if I'm not to old, but then I can observe!!)

Well done the SSDT TEAM keeping us proud of the worlds best trial.

[ishy]

Some interesting posts, I think I'm past riding the SSDT, love the event, but this year showed me I'm not up to it.

I don't think making the sections harder will still attract 450 entries every year, WD is credited for saving the trial from extinction by going no stop and making sensible no stop sections , this is what got the oversubscribed entry for the past ten year, why do some of you think the trend will continue if you toughen up the event ?.

I think the section difficulty this year was just a bit too much, my opinion, I saw every section of the event, not just the ones at the side of the road.

I think if you can have a number of very hard sections each day to sort the top lad's just make sure that the other end of the scale get's the same treatment.

If James Dabill, and the other top riders sponsors says ride the trial, they will ride the trial if the sections are easy or not, the clubman makes the decision based on how hard the event is.

[bilco]

Did'nt someone say dougie lampkin might have ago next year,well if not next year it's gonna be some year and we all know how hardcore he is,i guess all the name's will be coming out of the wood work to go up against him,so he won't want it to easy im guessing,maybe the club are out to knock the trial up another gear.

[frost]

......it's nice to dream about an event for twinshocks and over 40's in those beautiful Scottish surroundings.

"SSDT Classic" - sounds like an excellent idea!

[atomant]

I am not going to be popular with this viewpoint but I have been watching some of the video footage and I can't help but think why any average club rider would want to put themselves through that.

Anyone who watched the 'extreme trial' at Nantmawr quarry could draw comparisons to this quite easily.

In the videos I watched, riding into a section then pushing most of the way through to the end (and doing this on at least 50% of the sections you ride) is not trials in my view. That's more like Enduro.

To sum it up, when you ask a trials rider how they got on in a conventional trial they will say - "I done ok, dropped 15 marks and finished 4th" ( or something similar)

When you ask a trials rider how they got on in the SSDT, they say - "It was tough but I managed the 6 days and got an award for finishing!"

You don't get awards for just finishing in conventional trials do you?

Before you all start flying at me I am just stating a viewpoint with a question attached. I am interested to know if others think like this ? (Although from experience , the ones that do won't come on here and say it )

[perce]

It's all about sense of achievement, would you rather 'clean' one of these mega long tough hazards or ponce round flags at club trial all year? I know what my answer is. I somehow managed to clean all the sections at Doire Dhamh (where most of the vids I did for Andy are taken) one year, I doubt I'll do it again but I'll always remember I did it.

[old trials fanatic]

I am not going to be popular with this viewpoint but I have been watching some of the video footage and I can't help but think why any average club rider would want to put themselves through that.

Anyone who watched the 'extreme trial' at Nantmawr quarry could draw comparisons to this quite easily.

In the videos I watched, riding into a section then pushing most of the way through to the end (and doing this on at least 50% of the sections you ride) is not trials in my view. That's more like Enduro.

To sum it up, when you ask a trials rider how they got on in a conventional trial they will say - "I done ok, dropped 15 marks and finished 4th" ( or something similar)

When you ask a trials rider how they got on in the SSDT, they say - "It was tough but I managed the 6 days and got an award for finishing!"

You don't get awards for just finishing in conventional trials do you?

Before you all start flying at me I am just stating a viewpoint with a question attached. I am interested to know if others think like this ? (Although from experience , the ones that do won't come on here and say it )

Well i agree with you

[Andy]

I somehow managed to clean all the sections at Doire Dhamh (where most of the vids I did for Andy are taken) one year, I doubt I'll do it again but I'll always remember I did it.

Observer was away for a pee

[baldilocks]

I found it harder than ever this year, I thought the moors were easier but the sections harder especially Wednesday when I seemed to be clocking up three after three.

BUT dont get me wrong I'm not being critical of the trial in any way.

I'm a year older now than the last time I finished it and if everything else remained constant then it should seem harder as I'm pretty close to 40 now. However the problem the Club faces is that everything is not constant, trials are getting harder at the top level but remaining pretty much unchanged if not getting easier at every other level. Look at some of the novogar rounds this year, ie the Victory for example I lost 45 marks in a national trial, I've lost more in NE centre trials, look at the sections in your local centre on the middle and easy courses.

The gulf between the top boys and the clubman is therefore getting bigger all the time. The trial wasnt far wrong in terms of severity and was brilliant otherwise.

It should be an achievement to finish and it is, you CANNOT expect to be getting clean after clean if you want to compete on the same course as Jarvis . Morris, Dibs, Brown, Wigg et al and you ride the middle or easy course the rest of the year in local trials. I think the idea of one group a day thats mega hard to take the marks off the top lads is spot on, you can then ease a couple more and leave the rest pretty much as is.

It would ruin the trial and the whole point to have dual routes.

When its too hard for you step aside, theres plenty of people crying out to take your place...

Congrats to DIBS and the Club

[atomant]

It's all about sense of achievement, would you rather 'clean' one of these mega long tough hazards or ponce round flags at club trial all year? I know what my answer is. I somehow managed to clean all the sections at Doire Dhamh (where most of the vids I did for Andy are taken) one year, I doubt I'll do it again but I'll always remember I did it.

I fully understand sense of achievement. This can be achieved on many levels of course. Luke Price won our clubs C&D trophy 'poncing' around club flags all year. To him it was some achievement as you can see Here

I take my hat off to you though for cleaning Doire Dhamh (which is something I could never do) so your sense of achievement came from beating the CoC and the terrain. Is that a fair assessment?

For me, sense of achievement comes from beating an equal whatever the sport or event. Two different viewpoints I suppose.

[bigfoot]

I rode the event in 2005 and realised I'm not good enough. I think of myself as a good but not great rider but the SSDT can't be tackled like anything else you'll ever ride when your at standard clubman level. If you have a 'proper' go you know you risk a big fall and injury/bike breakage that puts you out. There are very few section in the week that you wouldn't tackle in a normal club round but they are different when your focus changes from dropped marks to finishing. All you really want is the a finish. Some of the stuff you ride between sections would scare a club rider and just completing each day is satisfaction enough.

Now back to this year event. I was riding (the route not the sections) again as a card carrying on Trial Central photographer and saw more section than most if not all spectators. I felt that 2006 was little different to 2005 but this year did look a lot harder. Some sections appear to have been tightened up a bit where in the past the markers were wide. I think a lot of water had also moved the rockery around a good bit which wouldn't have helped. (You've got to see a Scottish spate burn in full flow to understand how a section can change in an hour or day let alone a year. I've seen half ton rocks being rolled down these burns). Monday was as wet as I've seen it and I think accounted for the lost dabs by even the top boys.

I think the SSDT should at all cost try and remain a wide interest event. Everything that has been said above is interesting but I only really pay attention to those who have rider it in the past. The event may survive if it becomes more focused on the top boys and girls but it WILL survive and thrive if it continues to welcome clubman riders and set (in my opinion) most of the section in a day at a level where the majority can see a way through for at worst a fighting three. I saw far to many riders at the start cards or walking the sections trying to work out not how to avoid a five but how to avoid an injury or bike breakage. If it gets much worse club riders will stop enjoying it and stop entering and that would be a sad day.

On a final note however I think the club and in particular the folks directly involved during the long hard week again did a great job of running the sort of event that would take a government committee cast of thousands to arrange. Unlike the Olympic, FA cup or any other world event these people do it for the love of the sport and we should ensure that they are recognised for their efforts.

[betabill]

Living in Lochaber and seeing a lot of the terrain and a lot of sections we use in club trials, i assure everyone the trial is not getting harder we as riders are getting more ill prepared. The Scottish is a unique event where a lot of bikes get dusted down once a year, and there are a lot of riders who for them this is there only trial of the year. The bulk of the sections this year on most days were set up as in previous years with a few deviations here and there, as for hurting yourself and coming down with a big crash if you think about it there are very few sections throughout the week where this can happen. Out of 180 sections you could count the big steps on 2 hands (maximum), the ssdt committee have again done a superb job and delivered an excellent trial. So guys if you want to ride the ssdt get to the gym prepare early and get out on the bike for as much bike fitness as is possible.

[stuthescot]

BTW, what do people class as a 'mometary stop', one stop, twice, bike bouncing off the same rock five times? It's a tough job but someone's got to do it......

Our club runs two National trials where the Non stop rules are used. When observers ask me 'what is classed as a stop' I always tell them that it's when the bike stops moving forward no matter for how long, but the most important thing is that you observe every rider the same.

I appreciate anyone who stands and observes and there's always going to be differences in interpretations of a ride. I think that generally riders get away with more than they loose but it's only the ones you loose that you remember.

Just a thought as i was reading the posts, having ridden trials in the past - I know how hard it is for all the observers to interpret when its a 5, apart from the cartwheel back down the big step! Perhaps Mark could borrow some previous SSDT vid footage from Andy et al of a cross mixture of riders and marks lost, having an presentation in the Ben Nevis Hotel for all official observers on the Sunday night before the trial for perhaps half hour to 1hr, talking through what his expectations are where marking is concerned from watching the footage. This could help clarify things for observers and be some way to making things more consistent.

[wizardofos]

This is my first post so let's hope I have pressed the right buttons.

Having ridden 13 times between 1984 and 1997 (recording 12 finishes), and observed every year since, I think I am reasonably qualified to comment.

My 12 finishes yielded an average position of 169th from an average of 255 starters, with an average score of 568 marks. This year there were just over 260 starters (similar) and 169th place scored 491 marks. This does not suggest the event is getting harder.

In addition, as I floated out to the sections on my once-a-year used REV3, I realised how much easier the moors are to ride on these bikes even for a 51 year old.

I think the problem is that some riders have been softened up by easy club trials, where eventually all entrants will have a seperate route and all will end up on 6 points.

The Club do a fantastic job of maintaining a reasonable challenge for all entrants and making any sort of finish an achievement.

I remember going zero-one at Cameron Hill one year when D. Lampkin had just shed a dab. I will remember that long after my box full of Club Trial awards has been recycled.

Thanks to all for a great trial in 2007, especially my Observing Team colleagues Garlic, Sausage and "Old".