Moving Rocks

[tomsdad]

Here's one for all you experts (rules) out there.

In a recent multi route trial, at one section the yellow (novice) route crossed the red/blue (expert) route at right angles.

Half way through the trial a red/blue route rider, rides the section and dislodges a rock the size of a wide screen old style T.V. right into and across the yellow route, but not on the experts line. Whilst some of the novices will be able to hop over the rock the vast majority will come to grinding halt.

Question.

Do you leave it where it is or move it clear of the section ?

Leave it because that's the luck of the draw.

Move it because it's a bit harsh on the yellow route boys.

I await your verdict gentelmen.

Mike.

[ishy]

Just roll it into the expert line

[city trials]

I say leave it, that's the luck of the draw. Lesson here, walk the section each time.

[big john]

Definately leave the rock alone, that's what trials is all about, see ACU Handbook, page 163 Trials, TSR 22 definitions: Failure (l) "A rider or person having an interest in a riders' performance, who in any way alters the severity of a section without the authority of an official" will therefore earn themselves a five mark penalty!

Edited July 15, 2007 by Big John

[bikespace]

As an observer I'd probably move it out of the way of the yellow route (if that's your novice route). It wasn't there for half the entry and probably not going to make a better section, and it wasn't even a rider on that route that moved it.

Make the decision as the observer and the rule book doesn't come in to question. You're not a rider or a person who has an interest in a riders performance. You are an official and I would say within your rights to play fair and return the section to the way it was intended.

Judgement call on the day.

As a rider, don't even think about touching it. Most you can do is ask the observer nicely if he (or she) wants it moved

Edited July 15, 2007 by bikespace

[toofasttim]

Call Dave Thorpe.

[frozen observer!]

I agree with bikespace. I think you may be referring to my section last week and I allowed a rider to remove this rock. I agreed to the move because as mentioned it hadn't been there before, and it was not a rider riding this course that altered the section. If another yellow route rider had done something to shift this rock I would probably have left it as as someone else mentioned, that is the point of trials - sections change - be it harder or easier. However this was an easy trial and therefore we are trying to encourage riders that they can do a full trial, riding all the sections, and the point were this rock landed was only going to put these riders off and not encourage them. To be honest, the next rider would probaly have moved it out of the way again anyway . However, don't just move something - always ask the official first or you might not like the result!

[biffsgasgas]

In Tennessee last year I knocked a huge rock into the sports man line.

Yesterday i dragged a log into an advance line.

I have a tendancy to be "That guy".

As a section builder you have to try and make it inviceable but you can only do so much. As long as the rock is there for all of the riders its fair. The only exception I have is if the section becomes dangerous it needs to be changed. If it causes points then its just a pain. Rain is another good example of making this call. If it rains and becomes impossible or dangerous then it needs to be changed. If it rains and becomes a point taker then leave it be.

--Biff

[trickymicky]

Here's one for all you experts (rules) out there.

In a recent multi route trial, at one section the yellow (novice) route crossed the red/blue (expert) route at right angles.

Half way through the trial a red/blue route rider, rides the section and dislodges a rock the size of a wide screen old style T.V. right into and across the yellow route, but not on the experts line. Whilst some of the novices will be able to hop over the rock the vast majority will come to grinding halt.

Question.

Do you leave it where it is or move it clear of the section ?

Leave it because that's the luck of the draw.

Move it because it's a bit harsh on the yellow route boys.

I await your verdict gentelmen.

Mike.

Got to say i'd move it if some riders have been through before it got there. Its a one off occurance, unfair to anyone who rides after it got there, and a real chance riders will hang around 'till it moves naturally,or is assisted while nobody is looking. It could also spoil the day for some who suffered and lost marks as a direct result of it. (never thought i'd disagree with Big John!)

Edited July 16, 2007 by Slapshot 3
Sorted Quotes

[kevin j]

I agree, I'd move it. two reasons:

-It was not part of the novice line, and not a novice rider that moved it. In theory, the experts would have a different section and novice should not be affected by riders in another class. This reason is I think close to the rule books as written.....

-Second, it's unfair to other novice riders, and intimidating if it is almost a guaranteed 5, or safety issue for them. Yes, trials is whatever happens, but IMO, novice sections are a different world altogether. They should also be a 'marketing' tactic to get riders interested and enthused in the sport, eager to advance and ride better and move up. When this is clearly not part of their riders section, it would be discouraging. That is not be per rule book literally, but I think is in the spirit of what the novice class intent is.

-If other situations, Expert rolled it down into expert line, it stays.

-If Champs rolled it into Expert line, tougher call. I'd probably leave it, unless some had already ridden, and the new location changed the section dramatically or safety wise for the followig riders. Than I think reason one above applies, even if not Novice class riders.

Like they teach observors scoring the World Rounds, it's observors call, give the doubt to rider, but be consistant all day with same decision in same situation.

Interesting to read what others would do.

kcj

[sutty]

a message to toms dad when this happened it is only the clark of the course who can make a decicion to move it only if it is a danger to others as all your other replys explan this is trials!! which is what i said to you at the trial when you moved the rock !!!!!! no hard feelings

[bikespace]

Sounds like somebody's taking things a little too seriously unless your yellow route turns out to be your British Championship route.

As a qualified National Clerk of the Course I would back any observer (in a local club trial) who decided to do this for the good of the trial.

There's nothing more annoying as a clerk of the course than turning up at a section which has been ruined by some unlucky event, when it could have been avoided if I'd been there to do something, or if the observer felt empowered to do something.

It's a common sense thing, and apart from a few people who have taken the question from a riders perspective rather than an impartial observer, the majority seem to agree.

[big john]

Sorry guys, I assumed (wrongly) that the person who posed the question was a rider or the parent of a rider, not an observer.

It is true that the person with the ultimate authority is the Clerk of the Course but in reality, he/she can't be at all the sections all of the day, so it's down to the observer to decide what is the best course of action. I agree with Trickmicky it could completely waste the novice section and spoil the intended severity of the particular section.

Also, an observer is an "assistant to the Clerk of the Course".

As long as nobody had actually ridden the novice section, then the observer is within his/her rights to shift the rock out of the way, but in no way should a rider do this unless specifically instructed by the official. If someone had ridden the section and is marked, then the rock should stay put.

I should point out that moving rocks by a rider is liable to a five mark penalty according to the ACU Handbook, from which I posted the appropriate exerpt.

Big John

[slapshot 3]

Big John doesn't use his feet to shift rocks he uses a Matchless......

[big john]

Big John doesn't use his feet to shift rocks he uses a Matchless......

Absolutely true I'm afraid, it's the weight you see... the bike is heavy as well!

Big John