baldilocks Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Just noticed we have two threads running now, could they be merged by one of our forum moderators ? or can you move the post I just added to the other thread to this one please? cheers Edited May 19, 2008 by Baldilocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespikeyone Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Somebody could make a tank for a Beta if they had to or they can zip tie the Hebo auxiliary tank to the yokes. If everyone gets to a 4 litre capacity then you wont need fuel on the moors. Or try one of these CLICK ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Cheers spikey one, if they can build that then a tank for an extra litre should be a doddle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Just noticed we have two threads running now, could they be merged by one of our forum moderators ? or can you move the post I just added to the other thread to this one please? I don't want to merge the topics as Rappers is doing absolutely the right thing in keeping this to the forefront of people's minds while it's all still fresh. The sooner we work on the issue and keep reminding people there is a serious problem, the better chance we have of finding a solution. I'm sure Mark and the other SSDT guys are reading all topics relating to this so it doesn't matter what one you reply in as long as it stays a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 I recall that the luxury of fueling was down to a very forward thinking chap called Roy Carey (Fantic). BIG thanks to Roy for what he did.I never understood why the other importers took the **** as he was miles infront of them. If you were not on a Fantic then you basically fuelled yourself (organised teams from clubs etc.) Picking up on Rosey's point and forgive me if this is already being done behind closed doors, but can the various importers do something together (i.e co-operate to provide a similar service to that provided by the army)??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt five Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi all, where are all the fuel stations around fort william? nth ballachulish, glencoe, strontain, use them when posible. and the kings hse hotel, lochilort hotel and rannoch station hotel. they might have a fuel tank for petrol, I dont know, does someone? if you can use some fuel stations enroute, you would not need as many fuel trucks. from my my days as a service crew on car special stage rallies, you had to fuel the car in a separate bay after other work was done, could this be set up, in the like of lagnaha,leanachen etc what do you think? capt five Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) perhaps there is a solution amongst all these great ideas we have larger tanks for bikes suggested ( easy win really) daily figure of 8 routes around fixed fuel points ( petrol stations) the use of permanent tanks in farm yards, builders yards, quarries, bus stations, harbours etc with careful planning of the route ( and yes change will be inevitable) a dialy run out from the fort to a figure 8 (perhaps lapped twice) could guarentee the events survival at very modest cost. whilst i have tremendous respect for big johns view that 150 quid a rider extra is okay where are the commercial enterprises that provide such a service? A little internet research reveals NO company refuelling petrol vehicles commercially onsite Reviewing the alternatives (DIY) brings forth a lot of tanks that look right and sound right with the exception that they are in the main for diesel ( some are very cheap , fully set up and running for under 2k!) http://www.fuelproof.co.uk/budgettanks/index.htm http://www.fuelproof.co.uk/offers.htm http://www.tankdepot.co.uk/articles/37,1/i...7e59f0f93027033 http://www.apsmovements.co.uk/refuelling.htm Some rules to think about.. http://enquire.hertscc.gov.uk/ROWGuide/Forms/EMSSpills.pdf And finally after all that diesel tank stuff perhaps the answer lies in the item the bottom of this page. A few of these ‘deposited’ at farms etc may provide a solution. http://www.agrisupplyservices.co.uk/fuelst...htm#petroltanks Edited May 20, 2008 by totalshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) What sort of service do the Army provide? i.e. What is needed? How many pax? How many vehicles? What size? Guessing Bedford 4 tonners or todays equivalent? I didn't see any proper fuel tankers when I was up there, but I wasn't watching the fuel stops For those of you more au fait with this sort of thing, hauliers etc, what sort of requirements are there for a company that would provide this? HazMat drivers etc? Health and safety. Just wondering how big this task is, and how many people it would actually take to pull it off? There's a lot of people involved with this event, when you include riders, support, spectators, just thinking that if we actually discuss the requirements, you never know what it could lead to. Some entrepreneurial soul listening in might fancy taking up the challenge if we're talking an additional Edited May 20, 2008 by bikespace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 I really do think that lots of you are missing the point, its not manpower, transporting or locations that are the stumbling block, I or many others could do that for 27k. Its the rules, reglations and umpteen jerry cans of fuel carried legally and within health and saftey and any other kind of laws, properly insured thats the stumbling block. The hoops (legal) that you need to jump through are the unknown................surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 I really do think that lots of you are missing the point, its not manpower, transporting or locations that are the stumbling block, I or many others could do that for 27k. Its the rules, reglations and umpteen jerry cans of fuel carried legally and within health and saftey and any other kind of laws, properly insured thats the stumbling block. The hoops (legal) that you need to jump through are the unknown................surely? The rules and regulations aren't stumbling blocks as you put it. They are just laws that have to be looked at, assessed and then complied with, just like any other law. It's just a case of sitting down and researching whats needed then putting the systems in place to comply. How many rules and regulations do you need to comply with running your business? You just take it for granted that they have to be done, get them sorted and get on with it. This is no different I think. I remember the effort your club put into getting your local trials ground sorted and all the hoops and stuff you had to go through. But you got it done! Where theres a will, theres a way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) A a member of the Armed Forces I still think the way to go is to try and find other options within the Army/RAF/Navy. I don't doubt for one minute that the avenue being used now is closed but I can assure you that the military is a massive organisation and there are several cross over areas. What I'm getting at is just because one person/area says no, doesn't mean it's no full stop. Also it's worth noting that the Armed Forces changes it mind like the wind. Can't speak for the Army but in the RAF our officers (generally) do just 2 years in a post. New officer in, policy change, just as the dust settles he's off, new one in, got to make change to stamp my mark! The Army/Armed Forces is missing a massive tool for PR here, use this as a way to open negotiation. As I have said, try to find a high ranking officer who will see the benefits and can open doors, get an MP involved. Pursue this avenue big time, don't give in a first "no". Edited May 21, 2008 by boofont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Any options with somebody like the White Helmets? You never know, you may be able to interest them in a week away, display at the beginning and one at the end, then provide fuelling for the week? All of the white helmets have other trades, many of them electrician-drivers which regularly includes Hazmat training. Just a thought. I've got no contacts there any more, as everyone my age has left or is leaving, but thought I'd throw it in the think tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 a starting point would be a survey of the existing fuelling facilites not only the PFS but every farm, harbour, marina, bus depot, quarry then seek possible permiissions to use them then you have a a starting point for legitamate refuelling where the organisers would require limited input from that youd then have a clear picture of where and when fuel was required elsewhere. it may be that rather than one blanket approach as with the armed forces system a new process might involve a number of different solutions some specific to each refuelling point certainly the appointment of a refuelling 'supremo' by the club who once he has the survey can then feed back to the clerks of course so that they can best plan thier routes it might require a bit more from the riders, rather than fill up and ride to the next point some planning and thought would be necessary on thier part as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 on the other side of the coin, i am convinced that the manufacturers can do more. tank capacities have dwindled as trials become shorter in the 50's 60's and 70's scottish specials were produced and even today the importers publish a list of 'essential mods' to ensure surival/ afair chance of a finish. these mods include changing the gearing ( sprockets and adding drainage to the air boxes. most bikes in the trial are less than two years old , mostly less than a year old. sitting in my airconditioned workshop tonight with a beer to hand and my beta stripped on the bench i can see several possibilites immediately to increase tank capacity by easily 2 litres with only modest changes 1. the top of the tank nearest the headstock , right behind the radiator cap could be enlarged and reshaped. 2. the top surface of the tank could be 'blowen' slightly to incresa capacity 3. the area around the filling tube could be raised as much as 3 centimetres and the tube diameter enlarged 4 the underside of the tank could be reshaped at present there is a very generous allowance for the spark plug cap which can be reduced 5 where the cylinder head mounts to the frame there is an enourmous air gap 6 the fuel tap isnt actually at the bottom of the tank its about 2 cm above the tanks lowest point, move it and increase it size.. 7 increase the bore of the fuel pipe and the size of the carb bowl now on top of those small but cumulatively large changes could the airbox not be modified so to act in part as an auxilary tank as per Paris Dakar bikes the further the bikes can travel the fewer refuelling points req. the down side being that the bikes would have to take on more fuel when they do stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Hi Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts