madcr500 Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Upto 275 litres is exempt from licensing. See here: METAL CONTAINERS 5 The Petroleum-Spirit (Motor Vehicles etc.) Regulations 1929 exempt certain quantities of petrol kept in metal containers from licensing requirements. The petrol must only be kept for the purposes of refuelling internal combustion engines and must not be for sale. 6 Up to 275 litres of petrol can be kept in any one storage place without a licence. The allowable quantity is reduced when the petrol is kept in or near buildings, or near public thoroughfares or other flammable substances (see below). In calculating the 275 litre limit, the petrol in the fuel tanks of vehicles in the storage area is included in the total. 7 Metal containers must be constructed so as to be reasonably secure against breakage and to prevent leakage of liquid or vapour. They should be marked with the words "petroleum-spirit" and "highly flammable". from here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/65-9.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) 6 Up to 275 litres of petrol can be kept in any one storage place without a licence. The allowable quantity is reduced when the petrol is kept in or near buildings, or near public thoroughfares or other flammable substances (see below). In calculating the 275 litre limit, the petrol in the fuel tanks of vehicles in the storage area is included in the total. What is a 'storage area' though? Could it be argued that when the fuel is at a fuel stop it is being stored? Also, are the fuel stops not (or some of them anyway) public thoroughfares? Factor in the fuel in the cars/vans at the stop which could be anything up to and maybe over 100 litres too. Edited May 20, 2008 by boofont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcr500 Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Factor in the fuel in the cars/vans at the stop which could be anything up to and maybe over 100 litres too. Yeah but is the HSE really going to come and drain your vehicles fuel tank to measure how much is in there? Also, it is most likely that the vehicle carrying the fuel will be a diesel so that doesnt count in the same regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 What's the point in bending the rules? Granted, the HSE are not likely to drain vehicles but what would be disastrous is if the HSE took a draconian attitude because of rule bending. In my experience you need to be absolutely water tight on these types of issues and keep governing bodies such as the HSE on side, that is achieved by working with them rather than against them, for example by deliberately ignoring regulations. There seems no point in tackling the issues at stake here with quick fixes just to get another year out of the trial, what's needed is a long term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcr500 Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 What's the point in bending the rules? Granted, the HSE are not likely to drain vehicles but what would be disastrous is if the HSE took a draconian attitude because of rule bending. In my experience you need to be absolutely water tight on these types of issues and keep governing bodies such as the HSE on side, that is achieved by working with them rather than against them, for example by deliberately ignoring regulations. There seems no point in tackling the issues at stake here with quick fixes just to get another year out of the trial, what's needed is a long term solution. Your right but the regulations for diesel seem to be seperate due to the higher flash point of it so like i say it may not enter into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Has anyone tried to get insurance for a vehicle carrying 275l of fuel? This is the problem surely. If one of the vans is involved in a crash, not that unlikely rushing to get to a refuelling spot when late how many would want to be driving that van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcr500 Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Has anyone tried to get insurance for a vehicle carrying 275l of fuel?This is the problem surely. If one of the vans is involved in a crash, not that unlikely rushing to get to a refuelling spot when late how many would want to be driving that van? If no extra licensing is required then surely your normal insurance would be sufficient but as i said earlier, i dont know anything about anything, I am just trying to be helpful (probably failing miserably). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Has anybody asked the HSE what the requirements would be to run the fuel service for Scottish week? or is it a case of " if you don,t like the answer, then don,t ask the question". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 What if the ssdt organisers bought say five fuel bowser trailers (simillar to the ones used on airfeilds in the old days) Most people involved in motor sport have a tow bar,then they could take it in turns to deliver the bowsers to the designated fuel stop, and let other teams take it in turns to fill the bikes. as long as the bowsers where below the limit for exemption then it should be quite simple .???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 apart from insurance/ theft/ spillage and queueing whilst the riders refuel and you'd need two bowsers one for 2st and one for 4st i'm sure that its not insurmountable but it wont be simple or cheap ( the equipment that is) not sure how you'd refill the bowsers either most pfs only allow 100 liters at a time althoug in actual fact my license doesnt specifically state a maximum figure. the bods responsible for a pfs are the local authority for licensing the premises the local fire brigade for declaring it safe and trading standards for declaring it legal and the local HSE who says ok or no in the end. a way forward would be to nip to the local council speak to the top hse person and get a broad outline of thier feelings around the issue. I say you cant just ask any hse from your local council around the country as they like to 'impose' personal conditions ( direction vehilse face while been fuelled no allowed to fill at one time etc etc) so only the hse person responsible for the trial area is the person to speak to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Hi Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Hi Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 If everyone carried enough fuel on their bike (as opposed to in a back pack) than that would solve the problem wouldn't it? An extra 12 litres of fuel attached somewhere. Bikes like CBR 600's typicaly hold 19 litres of fuel. Racing at the TT you need every single drop to do the second lap. On the first lap braking for Quarter Bridge, you certainly know there's a full tank, imagine the weight on a trials bike for the first few sections. But providing everyone's carrying the full fuel load (and not getting some en-route to save weight) than it would still be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 But providing everyone's carrying the full fuel load (and not getting some en-route to save weight) than it would still be fair. And that's it right there! Based on all that extra weight, that's what peeps will do for sure. Ride with s lighter tank and get some en-route ! It doesn't matter now as there isn't much fuel to make too much of a difference, but going to a 10 Ltr + tank would be hell of a handicap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 stipulating 5litres min though would get people head scratching and we'd soon have some engineering solutions larger tanks, headstock tanks, dummy exhaust can tanks ( on the opposite side to the exhaust and tucked in like the exhaust should get you the three litres just like that) as mentioned specialist scottish and scott models may again become fashionable, bikes would become more road/casula rider friendly and trials may get back to something akin to the 50's/60's from a negative comes a positive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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