overthehill Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Just to confirm that we are considering every suggestion - we have spoken to HSE, are going to speak to the local petroleum licencing officer and also various other bodies. the more we think about it the more problems come up - most of which can be overcome but at a cost. for example the trouble with making bikes have bigger tanks means that the checks we do have will need double the amount of fuel - there is no win ! keep the ideas coming - if this topic dies so will the SSDT !! mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Hi OTH how far is it from between the fuel check before Meal Damh A to the lunch control after creag lundie ? I think that stretch is where i have seen most people running out of juice as it has five groups of sections and a lot of rough going. I had a look at the route and it says 8 miles from Meal Damh to Creag Lundie but its a long way from the fuel check to Meal Damh and then you need to come up and down the fell to actually ride Creag Lundie followed by a couple of miles down the road to the lunch check. However far that stretch is that is the absolute maximum between checks if we dont go for bigger tanks. Taking into account that its nearly all rough going then about a mile less should be ok elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehill Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Hi OTHhow far is it from between the fuel check before Meal Damh A to the lunch control after creag lundie ? I think that stretch is where i have seen most people running out of juice as it has five groups of sections and a lot of rough going. I had a look at the route and it says 8 miles from Meal Damh to Creag Lundie but its a long way from the fuel check to Meal Damh and then you need to come up and down the fell to actually ride Creag Lundie followed by a couple of miles down the road to the lunch check. However far that stretch is that is the absolute maximum between checks if we dont go for bigger tanks. Taking into account that its nearly all rough going then about a mile less should be ok elsewhere. its about 13 miles - and your right its one of the most heavy fuel use stops all week - the final check on tuesday is the most used - we supply about 700 ltrs at that check its interesting to note that the 4 strokes (montesas) use a lot less on the rough compared to the two strokes but more on the road - this means that we cannot give a standard ratio of 4T/2T to each check - it depends whether it includes road work or not !! - nothing is simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Hi Guy's. This is a second thought that I have. Hi Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 A simple way of proving how much fuel a bike was carrying would be to run them over a portable weighbridge, at the start and then at an undefined section later in the day this would then catch out the dishonest . Don't forget to minus the weight of the mud, thistles and the odd sheep leg obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 Having read the lot so far makes the mind buzz! There are many issues, and soo complex, how was it ever done in the past? How should it be done in the future? A time of reconing? Regulatory BS! Nowadays, limited bikes! And with old rules to deal with! Yet they cannot make the 35 mile rule? The exceptionally long routes, and road work, proving what? Is this just excess bulk on the trial? Should it all be condensed to accept modern bikes and their limitations based upon current design, which is minimal at best? Should the Trial be unusually pressed to provide fuel and stops in an effort to accomodate bikes that for the most part, you cannot even sit on without ruining a mudguard? Much of the bike design is based upon top WTC riders who do not even bother to show up! And Then you get into That! Oh sure , everyone wants the Top Kit, but are we talking Sherpa's vs Alpina's here in the bike range? In a way I wish we were, yet although there have been many comments in the past, the bikes are still very limited in their versatility. I think the candle is burning on both ends! Just thoughts FWIW, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 The exceptionally long routes, and road work, proving what? Is this just excess bulk on the trial?Should it all be condensed to accept modern bikes and their limitations based upon current design, which is minimal at best? Should the Trial be unusually pressed to provide fuel and stops in an effort to accomodate bikes that for the most part, you cannot even sit on without ruining a mudguard? Much of the bike design is based upon top WTC riders who do not even bother to show up! And Then you get into That! I think the candle is burning on both ends! The SSDT is unique and special because of the above, it would be a sad day if they chopped the routes up into figures of 8 but not as sad as losing the trial altogether... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 24, 2008 Report Share Posted May 24, 2008 The SSDT is unique and special because of the above, it would be a sad day if they chopped the routes up into figures of 8 but not as sad as losing the trial altogether... If it was figure of 8 and less mileage my guess is that 800 would enter!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 (edited) If it was figure of 8 and less mileage my guess is that 800 would enter!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not if the difficulty were increased! So you got what, 5 dabs out of Doug for the week? Obviously not too challenging for him! You can allow for a daily brain fart and get that result! Red and Blue lines, perhaps? So the others(200) may survive? As an example, I am not sure if even the top riders could survive six days of Blue line at you average WTC event level! The body (and the bike)can only take soo much! It IS an endurance thing! So who was it changing bikes, anyway? Once again, just thoughts. Edited May 25, 2008 by copemech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montaco Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 The exceptionally long routes, and road work, proving what? Is this just excess bulk on the trial?Should it all be condensed to accept modern bikes and their limitations based upon current design, which is minimal at best? A very interesting thought. Almost certainly the SSDT will have to change format, probably in the forseeable future. It could take only one major landowner to withdraw permission for the trial to cross their land for half a dozen others to take the opportunity to do the same. Don't be fooled into thinking that all the landowners or managing agents concerned are avid motorbike fans. It has far more to do with the politics of the local tourist industry and the potential wrath of the Fort William landladies if they lost their season opener. Add to this the growing interest among landowners in conservation, regeneration, environmental issues, erosion of footpaths, etc. There are large long term grants available for these things which far outweigh any "benefit" the landowner gets from letting hundreds of bikes tear up their hills!. Expanding on Copemechs post, it is possible to envisage the Scottish Six Days Trials. Think of six one day trials in the week in SSDT country - Leanachan, Kinlochleven, Ben Nevis, White Corries, Fersit, Strontian spring to mind as daily venues for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian640 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 (edited) Hi, Been carefully monitoring this discussion and here Edited May 25, 2008 by ian640 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Fuel stations could be used where possible but I dont think theres enough around fort william for the trial to survive in its current format. People can add the ones I have missed but I the following are the fuel stations on the route I think Fort William Glencoe Village North Ballaculish Spean Bridge Somewhere between Laggan and Meal Damh (can t think of the name of the village ) There used to be one at Bridge of Orchy burt I think thats gone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Hi,Been carefully monitoring this discussion and here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 There have been some good points here and I am sure Mark is reading them all to try and get a solution to the problem. Some people have mentioned that the SSDT routes should be altered to accomodate and maybe overcome the problem, it may come to this if it is the ONLY solution, but that will take a lot of what the SSDT is all about as others have mentioned. Getting manufacturers/importers to alter their bikes to carry more fuel is a non-stater as it is only the SSDT and maybe a few more events in the trials callender that it would be required. As for auxillary fuel tanks that are currently on the market the cost of competing in the SSDT is well over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehill Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Mark I know it is early days yet but have we got any ideas yet? over to you OTH................. We have set up a sub-committee to look at the various options - they are currently speaking to the enforcing authorities and suppliers of kit and services. The current aim is to provide a fuel service that means that we do not have to change the nature of the event. The SSDT is unique and we want to maintain the distance and reliability aspects of it even though the modern bikes do not make that easy. Apart from anything else shorter multi lap days would not work as this would concentrate the event on one or two landowners, multiplying the environmental damage and causing many more issues that could not be resolved - in short the land access we have at the moment works with the current format. it would not work with short laps or multi use. Another aspect is the number of riders we cater for - consider how busy a national trial is, even with a 10 mile lap, and that is with only 100 or so riders - it would not be possible to have short laps and maintain the current 275 entries. We want to exhaust all of the options to provide a refueling service before we considering changing the format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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