trialsnutterman Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 However, the people complaining in this thread don't appear to have any link to the event so why comment if it doesn't affect you? You don't even ride as far as I'm aware, so how can you say that! I do ride the British Champs and have done every one for a few years but since the rules changed I can't say I've enjoyed them, I just ride them to ride with the best riders in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 You don't even ride as far as I'm aware, so how can you say that!I do ride the British Champs and have done every one for a few years but since the rules changed I can't say I've enjoyed them, I just ride them to ride with the best riders in the country. Where is the link between riding a bike and making an observational comment like I have. I have of course been a sponsor to one of the riders of the BTC for the last three years and seen him ride some of them (work permitting). I say again, if the event has no bearing on your personal enjoyment of trials, then why negatively comment on it? If you actually ride the event or are otherwise involved, then fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 JC is right in that the Championship had to move off road. I rode a few champioship rounds in the late 80's early 90's so feel qualified to comment, at one ACU forum I was guilty of saying the championship needed to be off road before somebody got killed. Trials riders the world over exhibit a certain behaviour week in week out and never learn. Given 40 sections and 7 hours the rider will generally spend 4 hours on the first 10 sections, 2 hours on the next 10 and then try and ride the rest in an hour. I recall riding the Wye Valley traders one year and it was exactly like I have described with riders flying along country lanes at high speed toward the end of the event. This coupled with large vans clogging up the lanes was a recipe for disaster and did not show our sport in a good light to the general public. Another issue was single lap trials are no fun if your at the front all day and in some ways multi lap trials are fairer to all once the first lap is over. The top 15 used to ride in a group but young riders in front of this group had no chance of a good ride. Finally the main problem now is the range of ability, that issue was beginning to surface then. The first few I did in 88 or 89 I could keep my score below 100, by 1992 I was dropping between 130 and 150 so that was it for me it was too hard and no fun, and the top lads thought it wasnt hard enough..... anybody who thinks a single lap of 40 sections will resolve todays problems has a rather short memory or wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 JC is right in that the Championship had to move off road.I rode a few champioship rounds in the late 80's early 90's so feel qualified to comment, at one ACU forum I was guilty of saying the championship needed to be off road before somebody got killed. Trials riders the world over exhibit a certain behaviour week in week out and never learn. Given 40 sections and 7 hours the rider will generally spend 4 hours on the first 10 sections, 2 hours on the next 10 and then try and ride the rest in an hour. I recall riding the Wye Valley traders one year and it was exactly like I have described with riders flying along country lanes at high speed toward the end of the event. This coupled with large vans clogging up the lanes was a recipe for disaster and did not show our sport in a good light to the general public. Another issue was single lap trials are no fun if your at the front all day and in some ways multi lap trials are fairer to all once the first lap is over. The top 15 used to ride in a group but young riders in front of this group had no chance of a good ride. Finally the main problem now is the range of ability, that issue was beginning to surface then. The first few I did in 88 or 89 I could keep my score below 100, by 1992 I was dropping between 130 and 150 so that was it for me it was too hard and no fun, and the top lads thought it wasnt hard enough..... anybody who thinks a single lap of 40 sections will resolve todays problems has a rather short memory or wasn't there. Must admit I agree on this point. I remember the mad dash of vans and cars following the top riders round, the blocked roads and upset locals. Moving the Youth A & B to the saturday would help get numbers up but I am not sure that organisers would want that. I think the critical problem with the championship is too many hard, long sections to be ridden in the 1.5 minutes available. Virtually every club this year has got it too hard! Its no good saying it rained. Thats normal for this country. It is just too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 The difficulty with section severity is how do we measure what is too hard? If no rider gets through or nobody goes cleans it then it is easy to judge, - its too hard. But what of sections that at least one rider cleans, is that too hard? I always study the 5s,3s,2s,1s and cleans on each section after the trial and look to have several of each on each section -to me that is a good section. Trouble is if when different riders have good rides on different section the overall score can then seem higher than the true severity of the sections. Some feedback I had from Skyrakes was that Graham and Micheal where each taking it in turns to drop uncharacteristic marks which when looking at the overall results could make the trial look hard but reports are that it was superb. I think one possible problem we need to address is that we see the 90 seconds and try to max out the length of the section to that time limit. I think we need as organisers to aim for a 40 or 50 second section and then allow the riders the extra 30 second to get in and out of trouble. Neath had the first round when the time limit was first introduced and we tried not to do anything different to previuos years, it is now very easy to say lets just add that extra bit cos we have 90 secs. Something to discuss at the forum possible this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Where is the link between riding a bike and making an observational comment like I have. I say again, if the event has no bearing on your personal enjoyment of trials, then why negatively comment on it? If you actually ride the event or are otherwise involved, then fair enough. Been away for a couple of days on business so catching up on the gossip!! Mr Ant let me buy you a bigger 'Spade' to dig your hole!!!!! does it really matter whether you have or havn't attended a BTC to have a comment whether it be positive or negative? In your statement no one can give any negative comments unless they have some involvement whether rider, minder organiser or spectator? Does that apply to any other sport? Can I have a say about Formula 1, Premership Football, Rugby, darts or dominoes I am not involved in any of them but I have plenty of negative opinions. Forums live for debate good or bad what is a crap idea in someones eyes is a brilliant idea in another. One final point I enjoy trials mainly as a rider, sometimes an organiser and very occassionally as a spectator..............................I also like to debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 ............................I also like to debate Yes, you are no doubt a master debater ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgeonrocher Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Who are these "very good riders" name names? The Addict beat a VERY good rider last weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Yes, you are no doubt a master debater ! One of the best, I've heard..... Never ridden BTC, WTC, jeez I can fall off in the back garden but I've seen enough of them over the years to know what I've watched: for the most part we are all trials riders of varying levels some good, some really p*** poor (that'll be me then). This debate rears it head fairly often and there is never a common ground established. My own views: there is scope out there for everyone because the ACU/SACU has listened and allowed championships for various levels and standards to enable riders to compete at their own standard in a national Championship. If I'm cynical, that's what the whingeing and complaining over the years has created. You either like the system as it is now, or you hate it, personally, I love to watch what the top riders are capable of but it bears absolutely no resemblance, other than the name Trials, to anything I might compete in. Does it bother me, no not especially - do I want to see a GB Championship that helps our riders at WTC level? well yes otherwise I'd be damn selfish BUT like Gizza, I believe that Championship has to be sustainable, I honestly don't believe it is in it's current state. The clubs have to put on a viable event, the riders have to have the support and where with all to ride the trials and I don't see the level of sponsorship and support our best riders have now being sustainable unless the last few weeks of the credit crunch have been a strange dream. The relevant associations cannot ask clubs to lose money to run an event for a few riders. I spoke to Bigwig in a hotel car park this morning (thanks for taking the time) and obviously asked about Alexz next season and what he had planned. If a rider of Alexz's calibre is unsure of their plans at this stage of the year, I have big worries about the long term sustainability of the upper echelons of the sport in the UK. The ACU, the clubs, the riders and the sponsors have to work together to create something viable and sustainable for the future. We cannot model ourselves on other countries, they have different economies, different levels of support you name it; it has to be right for the UK. One big add.....Yesterday I saw my first Scott and watched riders of all abilities and ages tackle the same sections over the same route. Kind of reminded me of what it's all supposed to be about ..... makes you think doesn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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