I Hit Titanium Front Pipe...

[lian]

I have tryed to stand in here (16kb) and didn't hit brake in time so go forward and hit pipe with my and bike's weight

So now my front pipe looks like this..... (202kb)

It is much deformated and i think the bottom end power became flabby.

What do i do to recover its shape?

I have thought about cut (how to?) near the deformated place and somehow push it back.. but is it the only way? Besides, what welding will work on titanium material?

And for the further safety, what kind of protection is possible to make or buy to avoid such foolish hit? (mostly i ride on indoor type of obstacles - "street")

Thanks.

[laser1]

Thats the best diagram ive seen in awhile..

There are companies here in the states that fix those types of pipe crunches, so you may want to look for one where you live.. Also, there are lots of "how to remove the dent" type treads online. Many folks use the old frozen water trick (water expands when frozen) to fix battered pipes, but these are usually with rolled steel tubes.

[spark]

Yeah nice diagram. I have not blown out my trials bike exhaust but I have done my enduro bike more times than I can remember. Both ends of the exhaust need to be blocked and then the exhaust needs to be pressurised with air. I use 6 bar as I find the higher pressure I use the less heat needs to be applied. Heat up the area with an oxy acetylene torch and when it starts to go red the dent will start to push out. But, and this is a big but, if you need to ask how to plug the ends and are not familiar with using oxy acetylene torches rather get someone who specialises in this to do it. At that pressure an end cap flying off could kill or seriously hurt someone, and it is easy to apply too much heat and put a nice hole in the pipe. Also Titanium is a reactive material when heated too much in the presence of oxygen, so I'm not sure if it will enjoy being heated up to that temperature without a shielding gas. Not having done a titanium pipe I can't say. Looking at how bad the dent is I would recommend getting someone experienced to do it.

[lowbrow]

I dented mine, but nothing as bad as yours Lian. Using the method Spark describes I was surprised how easily a friend was able to blow it back out. Its not perfect because the metal had stretched in places (titanium is pretty soft) but it was much better than having to buy a new one.

[houseape1000]

Wow !

If that sketch is to scale, you need bigger wheels...ha ha ha.

Take it to an engineering / sheetmetal workshop, they should be able to do something with it.

As for protection, have a look in the Trials Central garage at Copemechs Sherco, PIPE GUARD.......He bolted a piece of aluminiun angle to the front of the bash plate, just under the exhaust, looks okay too !

Andy.

[htrdoug]

The small diameter of the pipe would make it difficult to use the air pressure and heat method,plus who know what it would do to the titanium. I would recommend fabricating fittings to pump the pipe full of water with a pressure washer,I have not tried this myself,but I would do this before heating up a air pressurized pipe with a torch(Which I did do many times back when I rode hare scrambles)

[lian]

Thanks all for variants!

i tryed for interest freeze water in pipe in refrigarator, but it doesn't have effect, maybe mininum i can't see.

spark, lowbrow, i suspect it will be needed to weld both holes to pressured air will not exit, but how to let this pressure in pipe? i will not do it myself i need to find someone but dont know who yet, but i need to understand process..

i find that methods hard to make and hard to find good specialists in this, especially with titanium material. i lean more to cut and weld back after restoration pipe's shape. but anyone know what type of weld i need to find to titanium? argon? with some defined electrodes?

houseape1000, yes wheels is tiny) i have thought about some kind of metal angle, but at Cope's Sherco i see visualisation of my ideas. will need to do it too.

after hit i have heard some kind of strange sound like metal ding or smth like that. Thought something happend with piston or rings after crash and they dings, but in garage took out pipe and piston looks ok, so what sound it may be? Maybe it is exhaust from cylinder in "new" redused shape of pipe caused such noise? Tryed to start bike without pipe to listen but was surprised by huuuge blows of sound from cylinder hole... turned it off immediatelly!

Edited May 21, 2010 by Lian

[dadof2]

To blow out an old fashioned steel pipe you blank off the ends and fill it with compressed air at between 100 and 150 PSI then gently heat the dint area until dull red. As you warm it it will slowly come back to its proper shape.

The problem with titanium is that it reacts with oxygen over 250 degrees Centigrade, The hotter it gets the quicker it reacts and becomes brittle. To overcome this you fill it with argon instead of compressed air and use a large soft reducing (excess acetylene) flame and try not to expose the hot titanium to the air too much.

Cheers

[houseape1000]

To blow out an old fashioned steel pipe you blank off the ends and fill it with compressed air at between 100 and 150 PSI then gently heat the dint area until dull red. As you warm it it will slowly come back to its proper shape.

The problem with titanium is that it reacts with oxygen over 250 degrees Centigrade, The hotter it gets the quicker it reacts and becomes brittle. To overcome this you fill it with argon instead of compressed air and use a large soft reducing (excess acetylene) flame and try not to expose the hot titanium to the air too much.

Cheers

Always be very careful of argon in enclosed areas - it's a silent killer !!!

[totalshell]

buy a new pipe, even if your pipe was steel it would take some real skill and a lot of effort to get it back into shape. yours is badlydented / creased and the time and effort that you or someone with the necessary skills and equipment is going to have to spend probably makes the repair uneconomic..

[toofasttim]

I doubt whether you could use hydro-forming here because the header is welded tubular sections. Chances are one of the welds will give up before the dent is pushed out.

However that it made of welded sections is good news. Lian, you'll need to cut along one of the welds and bash it out the old fashioned way and reweld.

Lian, where in the Ukraine are you? I might have a contact for Ti welding (usually difficult to find) for you if you're in the west (Lvov). Of course we would do well to remember that the old USSR was doing things with Ti that the decadent, imperialist capitalist west could only dream about.

[lian]

by a new pipe is a sooo last decision, i can't spend 300+ usd, but Thanks for advice

toofasttim, im in center of Ukraine, but was in Lvov couple of times. so perhaps i will chose your variant considering the most easy way of repairing dent. i dont know where to find specialists with torch and other..

so i need to cut exactly at previous weld line? will argon weld it back or titanium need some different welding type?

and i will do protection like Copemech's.

cheers.

[toofasttim]

Lian, I did a surf last night but can't find the phone number. Are you on Facebook? I can give you a contact through FB.

[copemech]

Well is is never an issue untill you ruin one of those things, even a stocker is expensive and I had my fair share, thus the guard. The TI pipes are great for some, not for me.

For those that may like or want some insurance, I will tell you that I looked long and hard prior to finding the right ali for one to fit. None of the standard extrusions are correct, so I found this cheap import sheet metal break about 18 inches in length that had the proper dimentions of the angled extrusions used. I had owned and used this little thing and the welds broke near the pivot, yet the angle stock seems quite good. I estimate it at 6061 T3 or T6 with an anodized finish and the dimentions worked perfectly at 1" x 1.75" or about 26x 45 mm. perfect! Just cut down the angle to length and trim to fit!

I think those benders cost about $20, but you get two lengths of 18 or so inches out of them, enough for 4 bikes! No idea about fitment on bikes other than the Sherco, but all I did was slightly elongate exhisting holes in front of skidplate and install a large washer on the backside with the nut..

I would also think Lian may have a leak because the pipe is now tweaked, and with no good way to jig it up to ck dimentions, repairs are even more difficult. I would hang it on the wall, go get a stocker! Scrwe that TI stuff, I bash too much for that! Lessons learned!