scorpa3 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Another option I was considering, was to allow a 'any route goes' class on a no award basis. This could be called the sportsman class. I could introduce it at this weekends Stratford Club trial at Top Farm if anyone would like to give it a go? I might come to your trial this weekend - I like the idea of being able to try a different route if you want to section on section. I might have a go at it Anyone is welcome to come and ride on this basis, just tell the secretary when you sign on. If it works ok, we'll introduce it as a regular feature at our club trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Any I had a hand in in years gone by, based on 4 laps of ten as was the norm "at home", we'd aim for three toughies that would challenge everyone, three easyish ones that even the real dabbers could have a good go at and the other 4 in the middle, reasonably straightforward for the better guys but might pull the odd mark but hard enough to challenge everyone else. Always seemed to work okay I suppose it depends how many you want to take off riders during a trial. Personally I don't see any point in taking any more than 10-15 marks from the winner and then again you don't want you less able riders losing so many marks they want to quit. Fine balance needed with this but and it's a big but, you make a huge amount of work for yourself laying out half a dozen routes for a trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikb Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Yes but could we all call them the same! (Hint for the ACU?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerdude2006fr Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Don't think you would want to tackle the Black route at Sardent dude!!!! Why not? Black is the easy route! But if you are on about the 4 day then jesus 60km's of interzones pretty much every day The one i did was closed and only had 2km's of interzones Another option I was considering, was to allow a 'any route goes' class on a no award basis.This could be called the sportsman class. Riders would be allowed to choose any route they wished, even change lap on lap, with the results being a record of the marks lost with no total at the end. The only rule would be that they told the Observer before attempting the section which route they were going to try. The results of the sportsman class would be meaningless to everyone apart from the rider themselves, but this would allow competitors to have a go at the harder sections after a lap or two, or maybe try them on the first lap and decide to ride the easier sections after that. Basically this would give riders five choices. A,B,C,D or S. I appreciate that this is yet another complication, but I am just trying to provide a service and good value for money at our club trials, thus appealing to the maximum number of people. I welcome any thoughts on this idea. I could introduce it at this weekends Stratford Club trial at Top Farm if anyone would like to give it a go? Here in france you can do that! Its what i did for my first trial, its called the 'Carte Decouverte' (undercover) Which meant i could ride all of the zones ect as i liked and i could choose which route i wanted because i was 'hors classement' Unclassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 ...or you could identify the hardest 5 sections on the easy route and the easiest 5 sections of the hard route and call that the sportsmans route (I believe a number of clubs do this - Cotswold 90 used to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 The more I think about this , the more I like it. Someone like me who dont give a damn about the results ( except for pub banter ) to be able to turn up at a trial, look at a section then ride the one you want means you can make it as easy or as difficult as you want to. On the face of it , it sounds great.. but..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Ok, that's done. At this weekends Stratford Club trial at Top Farm, there will be a 'ride which route you like class' which for this event is called SPORTSMAN. Sportsman (or Sportsladies) will have an S on their front number and will be allowed to choose any of the four routes in each section at each visit. The results will list the scores but without a total (as this will be irrelevant). An S class rider could ride say 2 sections on the White route, 2 on the Yelow route, 5 on the Blue route and 1 on the Red route, then swap around the next lap. Simply walk the section, decide and tell the observer which colour markers you are going to follow.The emphasis will be to have a good day out riding. If anyone wishes to ride in the S class, just let the secretary know when you sign on then tell me at the end if you think it's been a good idea. If it works ok, then we will make it a regular feature of our club trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Ok, that's done. At this weekends Stratford Club trial at Top Farm, there will be a 'ride which route you like class' which for this event is called SPORTSMAN. Sportsman (or Sportsladies) will have an S on their front number and will be allowed to choose any of the four routes in each section at each visit. The results will list the scores but without a total (as this will be irrelevant). An S class rider could ride say 2 sections on the White route, 2 on the Yelow route, 5 on the Blue route and 1 on the Red route, then swap around the next lap. Simply walk the section, decide and tell the observer which colour markers you are going to follow.The emphasis will be to have a good day out riding. If anyone wishes to ride in the S class, just let the secretary know when you sign on then tell me at the end if you think it's been a good idea. If it works ok, then we will make it a regular feature of our club trials. Put me down for it mate I will be down to give it a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 seems peeps like it towards the hard side when I thought they might like it to the easier side ? Is it because peeps dont want to sound wussy saying they like it easier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 there is a difference between a difficult section and a dangerous one,especially for the beginnes and novices. I dont mind struggling at a hard Trial and losing 100 marks so long as I can drive home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Agree dangerous sections, alongside 6 foot sheer drops and barb wire fences , dont belong in any trial. I dont know about hard or easy sections as what i think is hard somebody else may find easy and visa versa. My personal preference is for a section that rewards inch perfect precision, balance and throttle control and preferably that doesent deterioriate or get more difficult from lap to lap. Oh yes and doesnt require hopping skipping jumping rolling back or other circus performances and if you need a minder / catcher you really are taking the pi** Only a personal opinion but have always felt that Trials are about machine control and should not be about bravery / stupidity or size of wallet. Yours or daddys Most definately an age thing though as i noticed at the last trial i went to the younger, especially the very much younger, riders thought nothing of 4ft sheer drops etc whilst i and many other of the older riders didnt like the idea much at all. I also think too many routes are confusing and unnecessary and usually find two routes adequate. Never lay a trial out for the top two or three riders. If they are clean tough titty. Always target the mass of the entrants. After all everybody pays the same entry fee so everybody deserves equal consideration but "the needs of the many overide the needs of the few" plus if they dont like it they can always ride at harder events or observe or C of C ? Nah didnt think so. How often do you see a "superstar" helping out like that? Back to my original point you can make a section challenging without making it dangerous. Dangerous sections are laid out by people who are too lazy to work it out properly. Only my humble opinions but you did ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 o/40 yellow route these days, I've got to think about work on the Monday Agree with Andy about too many routes per sections, very easy to go the wrong way and get a five....and the queing is such a bore. You have to take your hat off the the guys who mark out sections with the foresight to try and keep the above hassles to a minimum...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 there is a difference between a difficult section and a dangerous one,especially for the beginnes and novices.I dont mind struggling at a hard Trial and losing 100 marks so long as I can drive home. You make a good point but its damn hard to make sections hard enough for the top experts without having some risk to injury. unless you just want them hopping and bopping at ground level It all depends on what nature provides for terrain to mark the sections out on as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 It's getting harder to please everyone. At our trials generally: White route - Beginner - Very straight forward - no big drops - no big steps - no really steep banks. Yellow Route - Novices - Bit harder, some toughish roots, logs, rocks, NO HOPPING required Red Route - Expert - Most things go - avoiding dangerous stuff - hopping probably makes at least 20% of these sections easier. Green Deviations - Inters - Expert route minus the nasty stuff, hopping avoided. The expert route used to be the easy one for me to mark out. If I can ride most of them with what I call an ar5e tweaker for the odd one or two then generally it was about right. I'll put it fairly anon, but in one of our last few trials we've had an odd complaint from an expert rider (he went home). Now I do respect the bloke so it makes it a bit harder to take, and I've got to admit i only heard second hand so don't have the details. If anything I thought we'd judged the expert route very slightly on the easy side (I'd actually eased a fair few of them up considerably) There were about 8 of us I think on the expert route, and marks ranged from 8 to about 54. My spritely 19 stone frame running (waddling) round with my lad (on the first lap at least) found it fairly relaxing, managing to clean all but one section on the last lap. To have an expert go home after a lap sort of made me think I'm not going to manage to keep everyone happy. If anything I would step the next one up just slightly, but that don't seem like the right thing to do. I really don't enter in to the bravado thing, I like to try to get the route at a level where most if not all of the riders will be happy. If they want less they can have less, if they want more, they can have more. This one's knocked me back a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted June 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 It's getting harder to please everyone.At our trials generally: White route - Beginner - Very straight forward - no big drops - no big steps - no really steep banks. Yellow Route - Novices - Bit harder, some toughish roots, logs, rocks, NO HOPPING required Red Route - Expert - Most things go - avoiding dangerous stuff - hopping probably makes at least 20% of these sections easier. Green Deviations - Inters - Expert route minus the nasty stuff, hopping avoided. The expert route used to be the easy one for me to mark out. If I can ride most of them with what I call an ar5e tweaker for the odd one or two then generally it was about right. I'll put it fairly anon, but in one of our last few trials we've had an odd complaint from an expert rider (he went home). Now I do respect the bloke so it makes it a bit harder to take, and I've got to admit i only heard second hand so don't have the details. If anything I thought we'd judged the expert route very slightly on the easy side (I'd actually eased a fair few of them up considerably) There were about 8 of us I think on the expert route, and marks ranged from 8 to about 54. My spritely 19 stone frame running (waddling) round with my lad (on the first lap at least) found it fairly relaxing, managing to clean all but one section on the last lap. To have an expert go home after a lap sort of made me think I'm not going to manage to keep everyone happy. If anything I would step the next one up just slightly, but that don't seem like the right thing to do. I really don't enter in to the bravado thing, I like to try to get the route at a level where most if not all of the riders will be happy. If they want less they can have less, if they want more, they can have more. This one's knocked me back a bit. I reckon he was on his menstral cycle mate And whats this about 19 stone? it was 18 stone on saturday ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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